Auto-Ordnance Releases "Vengeance" Custom WWII M1 Carbine

September 02, 2018, 01:29 PM

I had a Rockola years ago. It had been pieced together at the armory.
I loved it. I loved everything about it.

I let some idiot convince me it had no value and that I should look for a complete matching serial number one without import stamps etc....
So I let it go.
I have been looking for a rockola or IBM since. One day I will buy one. One day.

September 02, 2018, 03:33 PM

lyman

quote:
Originally posted by redstone:
I had a Rockola years ago. It had been pieced together at the armory.
I loved it. I loved everything about it.

I let some idiot convince me it had no value and that I should look for a complete matching serial number one without import stamps etc....
So I let it go.
I have been looking for a rockola or IBM since. One day I will buy one. One day.

you will never find one with matching serial numbers,

since they only have one serial number on them (the receiver)

everything else is marked by maker , not numbers,

some imports (Isreali for one) had the serial number stamped on the stock,

September 02, 2018, 07:12 PM

RogueJSK

quote:
Originally posted by lyman:
you will never find one with matching serial numbers,

since they only have one serial number on them (the receiver)

everything else is marked by maker , not numbers,

Yep. And even during initial production, there was much swapping of parts between the various manufacturers. So even from the factory, most carbines were made from a mix of manufacturers and subcontractors.

Don't bother looking for an "all-matching" carbine.

September 02, 2018, 09:00 PM

redstone

It's been awhile since I thought it through. Yeah, I had the book, tore the carbine down and went through all the parts it was 'supposed' to have and their appropriate stamps. It was a mutt of various makers and such. I was pretty new into firearms and just took the guys word for it (that it was of little value and not worth keeping).

But upon reflection, this forum and life perspective. I have come to realize how much I loved that M1 carbine. I loved that at least the receiver was made by Rockola and it would have given me joy for years to come. My plan was to collect the 'three' (WWII era, 1911, M1, and M1 carbine). But I just let it all go when I came to regret selling the Rockola.

September 02, 2018, 09:31 PM

nero

Reach further into your wallet and have the best currently produced M1 Carbine available:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/M1-Carbine-Rifles.aspx

nero

September 03, 2018, 08:48 AM

lyman

quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by lyman:
you will never find one with matching serial numbers,

since they only have one serial number on them (the receiver)

everything else is marked by maker , not numbers,

Yep. And even during initial production, there was much swapping of parts between the various manufacturers. So even from the factory, most carbines were made from a mix of manufacturers and subcontractors.

Don't bother looking for an "all-matching" carbine.

you gonna upset the Carbinistas with that comment,

carbine collectors are probably the most OCD/Anal collectors I have ever met,

one dude at the last show, who is very knowledgeable, told a guy the day his carbine was made,,

yep, told him it was made on a Thursday, on the third week , in June, in 1943 or some such,

I just smiled

September 03, 2018, 11:04 AM

RogueJSK

If you dig down into the individual markings and variations on each part, combined with the data in some of the excellent carbine reference books on which parts were used by which manufacturer at which time period, you can come up with a reasonable idea of what is probably a "correct" combination of parts for a certain carbine as it would have left the factory.

But it's always going to be an educated guess, and for any given carbine, there may be more than one configuration of parts that could be "correct" for that period.

Carbine parts were not individually serialized and matched to a specific rifle. So a carbine with "all correct" parts still is different from something like a Mauser rifle with "all matching" serialized parts. A "correct" carbine just means it has the right combination of the right styles/makers of parts for that carbine, not necessarily its original parts.

And while you can take a mixmaster carbine and meticulously swap in different parts to create a "correct" carbine, you can't swap in different parts to turn a mixmaster Mauser into an "all matching" Mauser, without resorting to faking serial numbers, or some rare instance like stumbling across the exact matching bolt for your Mauser with a mismatched bolt.

Not to mention that nearly every USGI carbine has been through at least one arsenal rebuild during its life, where parts were added by armorers with zero regard for anything besides grabbing the part it needs from a jumbled bucket of parts. So a carbine that has been swapped around to be "correct" as it left the factory still isn't correct for that particular carbine's history of use.

September 05, 2018, 09:31 AM

lyman

quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
If you dig down into the individual markings and variations on each part, combined with the data in some of the excellent carbine reference books on which parts were used by which manufacturer at which time period, you can come up with a reasonable idea of what is probably a "correct" combination of parts for a certain carbine as it would have left the factory.

But it's always going to be an educated guess, and for any given carbine, there may be more than one configuration of parts that could be "correct" for that period.

Carbine parts were not individually serialized and matched to a specific rifle. So a carbine with "all correct" parts still is different from something like a Mauser rifle with "all matching" serialized parts. A "correct" carbine just means it has the right combination of the right styles/makers of parts for that carbine, not necessarily its original parts.

And while you can take a mixmaster carbine and meticulously swap in different parts to create a "correct" carbine, you can't swap in different parts to turn a mixmaster Mauser into an "all matching" Mauser, without resorting to faking serial numbers, or some rare instance like stumbling across the exact matching bolt for your Mauser with a mismatched bolt.

Not to mention that nearly every USGI carbine has been through at least one arsenal rebuild during its life, where parts were added by armorers with zero regard for anything besides grabbing the part it needs from a jumbled bucket of parts. So a carbine that has been swapped around to be "correct" as it left the factory still isn't correct for that particular carbine's history of use.

that same logic applies to M1's 1911A1's and just about every US gov't made firearm during WWI and WWII