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Picture of arcwelder76
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Optimal ballistics are one piece of the puzzle. The desired target, typical range, and conditions of use all factor in. I can think of many applications where a rifle isn't operating at it's maximum ballistic potential, but is well suited to the task at hand. Think of short barreled ARs for CQB, or a short 30.06 for hunting.

My own personal diversion into a short 30.06 stems entirely from having thousands of rounds left over from an 03 that are too heavy for my Garand. What I'm after, is a fun range carbine that I'm confident would also hunt quite well.

I do have an interest in .357, and .30 carbine, so a .357 that performs accurately and effectively at 200yds is certainly of interest.


Arc.
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Posts: 23541 | Location: Love that dirty water, oh | Registered: June 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
PopeDaddy
Picture of x0225095
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JUST discontinued ....

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-5...d-mag-adj-composite/

Maybe you can still pick one up somewhere


0:01
 
Posts: 2823 | Location: ALABAMA | Registered: January 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by x0225095:
JUST discontinued ....

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-5...d-mag-adj-composite/

Maybe you can still pick one up somewhere


Well.....I don't know what to say....I'm very VERY dissapointed in myself. About a month back there was a composite stock 30-06 version on gunbroker for under 1k. I figured there would be more opportunities but apparently not.
 
Posts: 4203 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: June 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
PopeDaddy
Picture of x0225095
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:
quote:
Originally posted by x0225095:
JUST discontinued ....

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-5...d-mag-adj-composite/

Maybe you can still pick one up somewhere


Well.....I don't know what to say....I'm very VERY dissapointed in myself. About a month back there was a composite stock 30-06 version on gunbroker for under 1k. I figured there would be more opportunities but apparently not.


I know. A little disappointed myself.

I have the 550fs in 6.5. It's beautiful and the length is very handy.

I believe it's the same rifle as the 550 composite carbine albeit a different stock. It's also available in 30.06. So, there's still that as an option.....


0:01
 
Posts: 2823 | Location: ALABAMA | Registered: January 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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quote:
Originally posted by x0225095:
I have the 550fs in 6.5. It's beautiful and the length is very handy.

I believe it's the same rifle as the 550 composite carbine albeit a different stock. It's also available in 30.06. So, there's still that as an option.....


The 550FS (with the Mannlicher stock) does appear to be the same as the 550 Carbine, besides the stock.

Looks like CZ sells (or at least did at one point) the composite 550 stock by itself. Out of stock right now, but you can sign up for email notifications. https://shop.cz-usa.com/Produc...-Composite-Fixed-Mag

And a quick Google shows that McMillan offers composite 550 stocks. There may be other manufacturers as well.

So while it will likely be a bit more pricey than buying the 550 Carbine itself, you should still be able to make your own by combining a 550FS in .30-06 with a factory or aftermarket composite stock.
 
Posts: 18347 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 3/4Flap
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Uh-oh, Arc's got the bug...

I suppose there were some of us that went in for chopped stubbies long before the Gunsight Scout made its debut, but certainly that thing has bumped the market for them, and likely proven to the naysayers how practical short-barreled carbines are.

A few comments:

CZ 527; Great rifle, I owned one for a time, killed deer, coyotes, varmints and a stock chasing dog w/ it and my middle daughter shot a MONSTER buck with it but it has an inherent engineering flaw in its magazine attachment and some WILL NOT feed reliably. Mine was one of those. I got rid of it. What a shame, tho. Otherwise a super little rifle.

CZ 550FS. Had one in 6.5x55 but it is a TANK, WAY too heavy for what it purports to be, plus the CZ action in 6.5x55 is mis-engineered as well and many do not function as controlled round feed actions due to the feed lips of the magazine being too short and mag length too long for the cartridge. Mine was such and I over time and many iterations finally wound up with a very sweet little 16" bbl'd 9.3x62 out of it. I also replaced the non-controlled round feed extractor with a German Mauser 98 extractor.








Another favorite of mine now is a simple Ruger M77MkII in 6.5x55 with barrel chopped to 17 inches. Excellent rifle and one that has been with me on many adventures.





The old Enfield No 5 "Jungle Carbine" is another winner. Very handy tho the sling arrangement was dumb-stupid and made the rifle a PITA to carry slung.



The Winchester 94's and other lever guns don't get much support anymore but they are very handy and for some things are very very useful. We have had a number. I brought a Marlin Sporting Carbine with me when I moved to South Africa in the late '80's and used it on vervet monkey. And since then a few other stubby carbines have come along. The only one I have left is my little .44 Mag "Paratrooper 94".





Years ago I went to work on a Swedish Mauser and made a very nice little carbine out if it. It was a bit heavy for its size, but it carried well and shot well also. Which brings up the point. Every rifle is a carbine just waiting for an introduction to a hacksaw!!





**********************
"For certainly no legislation can be supposed more wholesome and necessary in the founding of a free, self-governing commonwealth, fit to take rank as one of the coordinate States of the Union, than that which seeks to establish it on the basis of the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony"; United States Supreme Court Ruling, Murphy v. Ramsey 1885.
The hardest trail leads to the highest peak.
"A liberal is a person whose immediate interests are not at stake."
 
Posts: 4661 | Location: Idaho, USA | Registered: May 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of YellowJacket
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I'm sure it is not an "easy" life, but 3/4 Flap's photos always make me envious.



"The frost on the ground probably envies the frost on the trees."
 
Posts: 7798 | Location: Marietta, GA | Registered: February 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by x0225095:
quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:
quote:
Originally posted by x0225095:
JUST discontinued ....

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-5...d-mag-adj-composite/

Maybe you can still pick one up somewhere


Well.....I don't know what to say....I'm very VERY dissapointed in myself. About a month back there was a composite stock 30-06 version on gunbroker for under 1k. I figured there would be more opportunities but apparently not.


I know. A little disappointed myself.

I have the 550fs in 6.5. It's beautiful and the length is very handy.

I believe it's the same rifle as the 550 composite carbine albeit a different stock. It's also available in 30.06. So, there's still that as an option.....


I guess its a possibility, looks like they have also discontinued the UHR (ultimate hunting rifle) which is too bad, I was interested in that one too.
 
Posts: 4203 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: June 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
CZ 527; Great rifle, I owned one for a time, killed deer, coyotes, varmints and a stock chasing dog w/ it and my middle daughter shot a MONSTER buck with it but it has an inherent engineering flaw in its magazine attachment and some WILL NOT feed reliably. Mine was one of those. I got rid of it. What a shame, tho. Otherwise a super little rifle.


3/4 Flap

Can you go into further detail on this? I've been considering a 527 in 7.62x39 and haven't heard about this before. It looks to be a great little carbine otherwise.
 
Posts: 813 | Location: Georgia | Registered: September 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 3/4Flap
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bryanZ06:
quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
CZ 527; Great rifle, I owned one for a time, killed deer, coyotes, varmints and a stock chasing dog w/ it and my middle daughter shot a MONSTER buck with it but it has an inherent engineering flaw in its magazine attachment and some WILL NOT feed reliably. Mine was one of those. I got rid of it. What a shame, tho. Otherwise a super little rifle.


3/4 Flap

Can you go into further detail on this? I've been considering a 527 in 7.62x39 and haven't heard about this before. It looks to be a great little carbine otherwise.


Yes.

Here's the deal.

The positioning of the magazine is contingent upon the depth of inletting of the stock which itself can vary and is effected by later changes that may occur due to moisture content, etc. There is no positive stop mechanically connected tot the action. No steel-on-steel positive stop.

This then effects the positioning of the feed lips vis a vis the feed ramp and chamber. The most common problem that arises is stubbing of the third round on the feed ramp. Sometimes other rounds in line, mostly the third.

I went back and forth with CZ and tho they were very helpful, what we found out was with some rifles there is just no fix...the gun WILL NOT feed properly. I modified magazines, got new mags, etc. No go.

This little rifle might just be my favorite rifle I ever owned {yeah, seriously}. It was VERY accurate, handy, and really sort of duplicated the old Mannlicher Schönauer in concept and at the time I had an AK and many cases of ammo [all sold now} so I had endless ammo for it. Killed a lot of critters with it. But one day a pack of dogs came by molesting my sheep and I was able to get the gun on one at 100 yards in high grass, with only the point of its hip showing. I shot that, broke it down, it carried on screaming and then the big mom {it was a bitch and 4 yearling pups} ran over to join in savaging it as they do...and I worked the bolt and got a good solid shot at the chest of the bitch and broke the trigger...nothing. Notta. Worked the bolt again and the pack was gone. This was the last straw. I got rid of it. One thing I will NOT put up with is a gun that is not 100% reliable, no matter how pretty or cute or nice or accurate it is otherwise.

Anyhow, here is the deer my daughter shot with it. Many years ago now! Brought back a good memory.



**********************
"For certainly no legislation can be supposed more wholesome and necessary in the founding of a free, self-governing commonwealth, fit to take rank as one of the coordinate States of the Union, than that which seeks to establish it on the basis of the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony"; United States Supreme Court Ruling, Murphy v. Ramsey 1885.
The hardest trail leads to the highest peak.
"A liberal is a person whose immediate interests are not at stake."
 
Posts: 4661 | Location: Idaho, USA | Registered: May 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of fyimo
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I have a H&R 301 Ultra Rifle that is my rifle with the shortest barrel and it's in the 25-06 caliber. I don't understand the concept of that round in 25-06 as that round is a very fast round by design.


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Posts: 8957 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: July 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bolt Thrower
Picture of Voshterkoff
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quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
There is no positive stop mechanically connected tot the action. No steel-on-steel positive stop.


I would think it would be easy to drill out the action screw holes and pillar bed them to a known length. If there is a spec that can be held to.
 
Posts: 7636 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 3/4Flap
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
There is no positive stop mechanically connected tot the action. No steel-on-steel positive stop.


I would think it would be easy to drill out the action screw holes and pillar bed them to a known length. If there is a spec that can be held to.


Something like that could possibly be done but I think it might be a mess to try it. Might take a few stocks before a guy had it nailed. Anyway, as good an idea as it is, its not for me.

OP, another EXCELLENT carbine is the Ruger M77 short-action Ultralights. I have one in .308 and what a peach it is. I've killed the normal assortment of critters around here with it and also worked up a really excellent 220 grain bullet load. Yup, 220 grain, as it has a 1/10 twist rate, not the normal 1/12 of .308's. Anyway, I got that one up to surpass the old velocities of the 215 grain .303 bullet from a rifle length. Great load. you know when it goes off, that's for sure, but it is a great load, and the rifle is VERY light.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 3/4Flap,


**********************
"For certainly no legislation can be supposed more wholesome and necessary in the founding of a free, self-governing commonwealth, fit to take rank as one of the coordinate States of the Union, than that which seeks to establish it on the basis of the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony"; United States Supreme Court Ruling, Murphy v. Ramsey 1885.
The hardest trail leads to the highest peak.
"A liberal is a person whose immediate interests are not at stake."
 
Posts: 4661 | Location: Idaho, USA | Registered: May 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
quote:
Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
There is no positive stop mechanically connected tot the action. No steel-on-steel positive stop.


I would think it would be easy to drill out the action screw holes and pillar bed them to a known length. If there is a spec that can be held to.


Something like that could possibly be done but I think it might be a mess to try it. Might take a few stocks before a guy had it nailed. Anyway, as good an idea as it is, its not for me.


Thanks for elaborating. Doing some reading today, it seems to be a pretty common issue. While I agree with Voshterkoff that it should be easy to fix, I also agree with you that it's not a project I want to tackle.
 
Posts: 813 | Location: Georgia | Registered: September 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 3/4Flap
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bryanZ06:
quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
quote:
Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
There is no positive stop mechanically connected tot the action. No steel-on-steel positive stop.


I would think it would be easy to drill out the action screw holes and pillar bed them to a known length. If there is a spec that can be held to.


Something like that could possibly be done but I think it might be a mess to try it. Might take a few stocks before a guy had it nailed. Anyway, as good an idea as it is, its not for me.


Thanks for elaborating. Doing some reading today, it seems to be a pretty common issue. While I agree with Voshterkoff that it should be easy to fix, I also agree with you that it's not a project I want to tackle.


It's really quite infuriating.

The 527 in 7.62x39 is a REALLY practical, fun, useful, accurate, handy and easy-to-shoot carbine that is utterly ruined by this ONE small yet big problem.

If CZ pulled their head out and gave it a RELIABLE mechanical steel-to-steel magazine/action interface all those bad reviews would disappear and they'd have a truly unique and superb rifle. As it is now, it is a toy.


**********************
"For certainly no legislation can be supposed more wholesome and necessary in the founding of a free, self-governing commonwealth, fit to take rank as one of the coordinate States of the Union, than that which seeks to establish it on the basis of the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony"; United States Supreme Court Ruling, Murphy v. Ramsey 1885.
The hardest trail leads to the highest peak.
"A liberal is a person whose immediate interests are not at stake."
 
Posts: 4661 | Location: Idaho, USA | Registered: May 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of SigSentry
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I have a 2014 model. I can't imagine a tighter lockup. Now, the magazine itself isn't the sturdiest as the follower is flat but mine cycles okay. Perhaps I am missing something? All steel on steel from my end.

 
Posts: 1887 | Registered: May 30, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 3/4Flap
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quote:
Originally posted by SigSentry:
I have a 2014 model. I can't imagine a tighter lockup. Now, the magazine itself isn't the sturdiest as the follower is flat but mine cycles okay. Perhaps I am missing something? All steel on steel from my end.



Yes, you are missing something.

You post an excellent picture to demonstrate it.

The magazine attaches to the trigger guard/magazine assembly, but THAT assembly rests on the inletting of the stock leaving the interface of magazine and feed ramp to the vagaries of wood machining tolerances and/or other effects {moisture variations, etc}. Thus some are fine, others are not, and there isn't much you can do if you get a loser. And there evidently are quite a number of losers.


**********************
"For certainly no legislation can be supposed more wholesome and necessary in the founding of a free, self-governing commonwealth, fit to take rank as one of the coordinate States of the Union, than that which seeks to establish it on the basis of the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony"; United States Supreme Court Ruling, Murphy v. Ramsey 1885.
The hardest trail leads to the highest peak.
"A liberal is a person whose immediate interests are not at stake."
 
Posts: 4661 | Location: Idaho, USA | Registered: May 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of SigSentry
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Well, I need to clean my rifle but yes, if the mag body/ trigger guard attached to the stock from the lower end doesn't meet up flush fit with the receiver bedded from the upper end, that would alter the feeding. Thanks for clarifying. It's been a while since I took it apart.

 
Posts: 1887 | Registered: May 30, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 3/4Flap
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SigSentry:
Well, I need to clean my rifle but yes, if the mag body/ trigger guard attached to the stock from the lower end doesn't meet up flush fit with the receiver bedded from the upper end, that would alter the feeding. Thanks for clarifying. It's been a while since I took it apart.



That photo shows the mag positioning well.

In a standard Mauser, the feed lips are machines into the action body, thus the depth of magazine box itself becomes less critical. In fact, I have on a number of occasions on Swedish Husqvarna Mausers had to reduce the height of the mag box by filing in order to prevent bottoming out of the box top edge on the action body before the guard screws came up tight. This due to poor inletting depth control {too shallow}, not uncommon w/ the old Hiskies. Once reduced, tho, the mag fed perfectly, actions was screwed very tightly into the stock and the difference could not be found in functioning in any way.


**********************
"For certainly no legislation can be supposed more wholesome and necessary in the founding of a free, self-governing commonwealth, fit to take rank as one of the coordinate States of the Union, than that which seeks to establish it on the basis of the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony"; United States Supreme Court Ruling, Murphy v. Ramsey 1885.
The hardest trail leads to the highest peak.
"A liberal is a person whose immediate interests are not at stake."
 
Posts: 4661 | Location: Idaho, USA | Registered: May 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
quote:
Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
There is no positive stop mechanically connected tot the action. No steel-on-steel positive stop.


I would think it would be easy to drill out the action screw holes and pillar bed them to a known length. If there is a spec that can be held to.


Something like that could possibly be done but I think it might be a mess to try it. Might take a few stocks before a guy had it nailed. Anyway, as good an idea as it is, its not for me.

OP, another EXCELLENT carbine is the Ruger M77 short-action Ultralights. I have one in .308 and what a peach it is. I've killed the normal assortment of critters around here with it and also worked up a really excellent 220 grain bullet load. Yup, 220 grain, as it has a 1/10 twist rate, not the normal 1/12 of .308's. Anyway, I got that one up to surpass the old velocities of the 215 grain .303 bullet from a rifle length. Great load. you know when it goes off, that's for sure, but it is a great load, and the rifle is VERY light.


When you say ruger ultralight, do you mean the Hawkeye compact model? Or did they used to make one actually called the ultralight?
 
Posts: 4203 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: June 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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