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The link has a photo.

https://www.armytimes.com/news...ting-top-commanders/

The Army picked this sub gun for security details to use while protecting top commanders and leaders

By Todd South 5 hours ago

The Army has selected the sub compact weapon it will arm its security soldiers with and it wasn’t one of the big companies that have grabbed other recent weapons contracts.

Brugger and Thomet, USA won the competition over Sig Sauer and four other companies that had been vying for the job. Their APC9K was the winner, according to an update on fbo.gov, a government business website.

The small submachine gun is chambered in 9mm and variants of the weapon are in use with police units such as Special Weapons and Tactics, or SWAT teams.

The gun can fire in both semi- and full-automatic modes, has a collapsible stock and rail system for accessories such as aiming lights and lasers.

The Army sought a concealable weapon for personal security details that protect high risk personnel such as the secretary of the Army, chief of staff or senior commanders. The aim was to go beyond the pistol and to allow security staff to engage threats “with a high volume of lethal force while accurately firing at close range with minimal collateral damage,” according to the website.

Sig Sauer, winner of the contract to produce the Modular Handgun System for all four services, along with Angstadt Arms, Global Ordnance, Shield Arms and Trident Rifles, competed for the contract.

B&T will manufacture 350 guns and accessories such as spare parts, slings and manuals. The Army has the option to purchase up to 1,000 under the terms of the contract, which is valued at more than $2.5 million.

The Army announced the request in May 2018. Ten companies provided their options. Weapons ranged from M4-style carbines to modern versions of the Heckler & Koch MP5 sub gun design.

The original posting was pulled to adjust the requirements. And gun makers had to submit a weapon that was optimized to fire 147-grain 9mm and include both 20- and 30-round magazine options.
 
Posts: 13697 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Thanks for that.
A far cry from when I was carrying a Smith & Wesson 2" model 10 and 18 rounds of 38 Special loaded with 130 grain FMJ bullets on those details. Smile




“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.”
— The Wizard of Oz
 
Posts: 39451 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get on the fifty!
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I was excited to hear that. I love my APC.




Pickin' stones and pullin' teats is a hard way to make a living. But, sure as God's got sandals, it beats fightin' dudes with treasure trails.
 
Posts: 3139 | Location: OK | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bolt Thrower
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Wonder why they didn’t go with the MP7.
 
Posts: 8372 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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quote:
Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Wonder why they didn’t go with the MP7.


The requirement was for a 9mm weapon. The MP7 uses a proprietary 4.6x30mm round.

Besides, the 4.6×30mm cartridge was designed primarily to defeat body armor, and its terminal ballistics are not that great. It is similar to a hopped-up .17 HMR, but made to be fired out of shorter barrels. Basically a very small and fast projectile designed strictly for penetration. It's a better option against armored threats than 9mm, but 9mm is more effective against unarmored threats.

Like the FN P90/5.7, it was part of the late Cold War push to develop a NATO PDW to give support troops the capability to counter Soviet body armor.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RogueJSK,
 
Posts: 22232 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Not as lean, not as mean,
Still a Marine
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quote:
Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Wonder why they didn’t go with the MP7.


I would imagine the proprietary round and price of the MP7 kept it from being a viable contender.




I shall respect you until you open your mouth, from that point on, you must earn it yourself.
 
Posts: 2461 | Location: Southern Maine | Registered: February 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Based on past examples, the military forces are far more likely to adopt a new firearm than a new cartridge.
And as a side note, if defeating soft body armor were that important with a weapon like this, then someone could resurrect the KTW bullet or something similar.

Defeating hard armor, including the inexpensive, readily-available steel stuff, isn’t going to happen with any handgun cartridge suitable for use in a weapon of the type being discussed.




“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.”
— The Wizard of Oz
 
Posts: 39451 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bolt Thrower
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Wouldn’t vip escort want to have some AP ability? Especially amongst foreign military? Also it’s already in use in limited quantity by US forces.
 
Posts: 8372 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Not as lean, not as mean,
Still a Marine
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AP isn't that important to VIP security due to the scope of work.

As VIP, immediate security is (usually) to get to extract, not to neutralize the threat. Multiple hits of 9mm on hard armor should distract the threat allowing for the VIP to run for cover. Your react team would be the neutralizing force with AP rifle rounds.

Think of secret service we see in DC. The inner ring will have concealable weapons, while you have rifles inside the trucks, and over-watch above. Each level has their job. This is really no different, just on a smaller scale.




I shall respect you until you open your mouth, from that point on, you must earn it yourself.
 
Posts: 2461 | Location: Southern Maine | Registered: February 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Wonder why they didn’t go with the MP7.


Saw my first MP7 in front of 10 Downing St last fall, London Metro Police guarding the prime minister. At the back gate (far less tourists) two real friendly guys were carrying G-17s, one had an HK G-36, the other an MP5. Both had two shot Tasers. 9mm ammo was Federal JHPs.

Edited to amend nomenclature from HK25 to HK G-36.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Sigmund,
 
Posts: 13697 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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MP7, P90, and all “PDW” calibers are very niche and not appropriate for general issue. They were designed to punch soft armor, which they do. But their terminal ballistics suck and rely upon punching many holes to stop a threat. Secret Service and a LE agency in Jacksonville, FL were among the largest users of the p90. Both dropped the p90 after seeing poor terminal ballistics.


https://pistol-forum.com/showt...-FN-5-7-mm-HK-4-6-mm


---------------------------------------------
"AND YEA THOUGH THE HINDUS SPEAK OF KARMA, I IMPLORE YOU...GIVE HER A BREAK, LORD". - Clark W. Griswald
 
Posts: 1950 | Location: The South | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Basically identical to the experience of one of our local agencies, who got P90s for their ERT team about 20ish years ago. They were reportedly fun to shoot and very controllable, but they dumped them within a short period due to poor effectiveness.

Whereas 9mm MP5s are still being used by several local agencies.
 
Posts: 22232 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Sigmund:
one had an HK-25


No such thing. The HK25 was a proposed heavy machinegun variant of the HK21 LMG, which was to be chambered in .50 BMG. But the idea was scrapped before any prototypes were produced.



Here's a HK21 LMG. The HK25 would have been even larger, and in .50 cal instead of 7.62 NATO.
 
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Rogue, you've got mail.
 
Posts: 13697 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Sigmund:
Rogue, you've got mail.


Based on the photo you emailed me, the "HK 25" in use by that London officer is a HK G36C.



Like these other Metro Police Officers:



 
Posts: 22232 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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