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Of these three which would you choose for a home defense weapon: 1) SBR'd PS90, 2) SBR'd 300 BO or 3) SBR 9mm (like the CZ Evo Scorpion)?? My choice may not be the mot popular, but after seeing the damage that the FN did at Fort Hood, I would go with the PS90.


He Is No Fool Who Gives What He Cannot Keep,
To Gain That Which He Cannot Lose!
 
Posts: 593 | Location: central nebraska | Registered: November 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yew got a spider
on yo head
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300BLK pistol loaded with HV ammo.
 
Posts: 5098 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: April 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ditto^^^

SBR'd (or pistol) .300 BLK with the best terminally performing super-sonic ammo you can get. Add quality RDS, light, and 2pt quick-adjust sling.

A 9mm or PS90 would not be a bad choice either, but it would change my training a bit, personally, I'd become more head-shot biased with those.

The platform you have the most experience with matters as well, going with something new to you will just require that much more trigger time.




“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik

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Posts: 5043 | Location: Oregon | Registered: October 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My hypocrisy goes only so far
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300blk all the way.
It's the reason I built a his & her pair of 10.5" pistols.




U.S.M.C.
VFW-8054
III%

"Never let a Wishbone grow where a Backbone should be "



 
Posts: 6931 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
sick puppy
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along this line of thought, what are good defensive loads for home defense in the 300blk?

I have an upper. I've shot it some using the lower and BCG from my AR, but still need to buy/assemble a dedicated lower for it.

I've only fired 19 rounds of the cheapest box of S&B 300blk I could find, just to test it out, so I still have no real opinions on the round...



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Posts: 7546 | Location: Alpine, Ut | Registered: February 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Certified All Positions
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Just not the PS90.

9mm isn't a bad choice, particularly with modern ammo. Can't complain about 300blk.

I'd also take .223 for a host of reasons over 5.7, or really almost anything else.


Arc.
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Posts: 27000 | Location: On fire, off the shoulder of Orion | Registered: June 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Seeing that .223 is known to fragment, stay inside the confines of the home, I would hope these other cartridges would follow suit.
 
Posts: 465 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I’m using a silenced 9” SBR 300BLK with Lehigh 194gr Subsonic Maximum Expansion rounds
 
Posts: 282 | Registered: March 18, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
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quote:
Originally posted by kilyung:
I’m using a silenced 9” SBR 300BLK with Lehigh 194gr Subsonic Maximum Expansion rounds


Same ammo but building a 7.5” to go with the new Sandman-K. Currently using my 8.25” sbr with my 762SDN6.

I have a suppressed MPX as well but prefer the 300blk over 9mm.



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 7993 | Location: Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by JDG:
Seeing that .223 is known to fragment, stay inside the confines of the home, I would hope these other cartridges would follow suit.


If you’re referring to fragmenting in a human body, the 5.7×28mm bullet might (I haven’t seen any data or testing)—but might not due to its lower velocity. The 9mm Luger and 300 Blackout probably won’t.

Further, relying on hitting the (human) target to prevent over-penetration and danger to others in the neighborhood is not a wise idea. A large number of shots in real life defensive situations miss their targets completely or pass right through, but many people, it seems, fail to recognize that fact and assume that every shot fired will be a perfect hit.

I would also expect the 5.7 to penetrate less through building materials than the 9mm or 300 BLK.

Added: As for the Lehigh ammunition, if one is relying on it to expand at subsonic velocities and reduce the possibility of over-penetration, I urge some research despite it’s “maximum expansion” name. I have experimented with both the 174 and 170 grain “Controlled Fracturing” subsonic loads, and only the 170 grain bullet with its strange design expanded in the test medium I used (yes, I know about “test” mediums, especially improvised ones). The 194 grain bullet appears similar in design to the 174, so I’d be curious how the 194 actually performs.




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47365 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My choice is 6.8SPC 90 grain GoldDots from 8.5" barrel. I am not concerned about over penetration in my situation. I assume, regardless of caliber or placement, that any shot I fire will pass through common building materials. So, if I shoot, the risk exists.

YMMV
 
Posts: 2032 | Location: Virginia | Registered: April 08, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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After owning a setup Scorpion I am having this internal debate as well. I may mount my can on it and sell my HD Benelli M4. $699 pistol, $150 atf approved brace (SB EVO), slung, $20 magazines. It’s really a nice compact package for doorways. I’m lacking a red dot and light to complete it.



What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone
 
Posts: 12568 | Location: Down South | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by burnetma:
I assume, regardless of caliber or placement, that any shot I fire will pass through common building materials.


Good thinking, IMO.




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47365 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Suppressed 300 blk SBR. I keep mine loaded with my reloads of 110 he Barnes TAC Tx. Added a rds light and sling and I’ve got no complaints.
 
Posts: 782 | Location: PA  | Registered: December 05, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am not interested in igniting a caliber war - I think any of the weapons mentioned will more than suffice for home protection. My thoughts about the 5.7 were based upon an article in Defensive Carry a number of years ago. This round does inestimable damage once a target is hit - and in a manner that exceeded what I would have expected based upon ballistic gel studies. I am a physician and have seen my share of trauma from shootings - but very few 5.7 shootings - so I really have no personal experience with that round in terms of what it does to a human other than the following:

Lethality of the fn 5.7 pistol

The FN 5.7 pistol is constantly maligned or underestimated in many gun forums and articles, often by people who have never experienced shooting the pistol. Subjective comparisons with the .22 magnum or categorization as a sub-par .223 round create confusion about the effectiveness of the FN 5.7.

Enough time has passed after the terrorist attack at Ft. Hood. The shooter, Nidal Malik Hassan, has been arrested, tried and sentenced. The media has moved on. Now we can begin to analyze the impact of the FN 5.7 and address the question of lethality.

Using SS192 and SS197SR ammunition (common commercial 5.7x28 ammo), several 20-30 round magazines and an FN 5.7 (shooter also had a .357 revolver but did not use it), Hassan killed 13 and wounded 32 people.

Many armchair ballistics expert criticized this result as proof that the FN 5.7 platform is not lethal enough because of the proportion of the fatalities to the wounded. Others have proposed that had Hassan use another type of pistol, 9mm or .45, there would have been more fatalities.

If you look at this Wikipedia link and look at the list of casualties, one can come to a very eye-opening conclusion.
Fort Hood shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1. 11 people were shot center-of-mass (COM), one was shot in the stomach and one was shot in the head. All 13 died. All 11 victims who were shot COM did not survive.
2. 3 of the 13 people who died, tried to charge Hassan, but he stopped them with COM shots.
3. The 32 people who were wounded were hit in the arms, legs, hips and shoulders. None of the wounded survivors were shot COM.

The following conclusions can be drawn:
1. The FN 5.7 is a very lethal round CQB because all 11 victims who were shot COM died. No survivors for those hit COM.
2. The FN 5.7 is a real stopper, because 3 tried to charge Hassan at close range and were stopped by COM shots.
3. One of the fatalities was shot in the stomach, and died. The fragmentation of the SS197R round can create a hail of metal shards that can cause serious internal organ damage and bleeding in the stomach.
4. None of the 32 people who were hit in the extremities, hips and shoulders were able to muster a counter-attack because the FN 5.7 must have shattered or broken bones. The high rate of wounded vicitms to fatalities was the direct result of the shooting ability of Hassan (or lack thereof), and not because the 5.7x28 round is not lethal.
5. Sgt. Kimberly Munley (base civilian police), one of the first responders, was immediately disabled with 5.7x28 bullet shrapnels to her wrist and a second 5.7x28 bullet broke her femur. The light 5.7x28 commercial ammo showed that it can shatter large bones due to its velocity
6. According to medical personnel, there was so much blood in the room that it was difficult to get to the victims because the floor became very slippery. One can conclude that the commercial 5.7x28 rounds can fragment or tumble, causing immense blood loss.
7. It took five bullets (which I assume was a 9 mm) from Sgt Mark Todd to stop Hasan. And he survived his wounds (no available info on where he was hit, except that one of the bullets paralyzed Hasan).

In conclusion:
1. The FN 5.7 is definitely a very lethal round. 100% fatality for COM shots.
2. The FN 5.7 is a man-stopper. Three military men tried to charge Hasan, and all three were stopped.
2. The FN 5.7 is a very incapacitating round, if extremities are hit, because it is powerful enough to break the femur (which is the largest bone in the body)
3. The fragmentation or tumbling effect of commercial ammo can cause a lot of blood loss.


He Is No Fool Who Gives What He Cannot Keep,
To Gain That Which He Cannot Lose!
 
Posts: 593 | Location: central nebraska | Registered: November 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nothing to do with the caliber/lethality debate, but I have shot a PS90 a bunch. I have found its a very tough gun to run fast. Compared to using an AR or MPX I am inevitable slower and/or less accurate. The trigger is generally terrible (and unlike an AR can't be readily improved), mag changes are slow, the optic height over bore is harder to manage and unlike an AR everything is harder to do (like mounting stuff, or adjusting the LOP, etc. etc.).
I wouldn't feel deficient if PS90 is all I had but I think that I would be better off overall with an AR or a CZ. Never mind that everything will be cheaper and easier to find (gun,ammo,mag,parts). FWIW.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10966 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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hrcjon - the PS90 trigger sucks - which makes it a pain in the butt to shoot rapidly! Agree 100%. I am building a 7" 9mm gun with the Fostech trigger - should be the closest thing I will ever shoot that mimics a full auto gun! I think my home defense will transition to an SBR'd 300 BO


He Is No Fool Who Gives What He Cannot Keep,
To Gain That Which He Cannot Lose!
 
Posts: 593 | Location: central nebraska | Registered: November 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The guy behind the guy
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quote:
Originally posted by prairiefire:
I am not interested in igniting a caliber war - I think any of the weapons mentioned will more than suffice for home protection. My thoughts about the 5.7 were based upon an article in Defensive Carry a number of years ago. This round does inestimable damage once a target is hit - and in a manner that exceeded what I would have expected based upon ballistic gel studies. I am a physician and have seen my share of trauma from shootings - but very few 5.7 shootings - so I really have no personal experience with that round in terms of what it does to a human other than the following:

Lethality of the fn 5.7 pistol

The FN 5.7 pistol is constantly maligned or underestimated in many gun forums and articles, often by people who have never experienced shooting the pistol. Subjective comparisons with the .22 magnum or categorization as a sub-par .223 round create confusion about the effectiveness of the FN 5.7.

Enough time has passed after the terrorist attack at Ft. Hood. The shooter, Nidal Malik Hassan, has been arrested, tried and sentenced. The media has moved on. Now we can begin to analyze the impact of the FN 5.7 and address the question of lethality.

Using SS192 and SS197SR ammunition (common commercial 5.7x28 ammo), several 20-30 round magazines and an FN 5.7 (shooter also had a .357 revolver but did not use it), Hassan killed 13 and wounded 32 people.

Many armchair ballistics expert criticized this result as proof that the FN 5.7 platform is not lethal enough because of the proportion of the fatalities to the wounded. Others have proposed that had Hassan use another type of pistol, 9mm or .45, there would have been more fatalities.

If you look at this Wikipedia link and look at the list of casualties, one can come to a very eye-opening conclusion.
Fort Hood shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1. 11 people were shot center-of-mass (COM), one was shot in the stomach and one was shot in the head. All 13 died. All 11 victims who were shot COM did not survive.
2. 3 of the 13 people who died, tried to charge Hassan, but he stopped them with COM shots.
3. The 32 people who were wounded were hit in the arms, legs, hips and shoulders. None of the wounded survivors were shot COM.

The following conclusions can be drawn:
1. The FN 5.7 is a very lethal round CQB because all 11 victims who were shot COM died. No survivors for those hit COM.
2. The FN 5.7 is a real stopper, because 3 tried to charge Hassan at close range and were stopped by COM shots.
3. One of the fatalities was shot in the stomach, and died. The fragmentation of the SS197R round can create a hail of metal shards that can cause serious internal organ damage and bleeding in the stomach.
4. None of the 32 people who were hit in the extremities, hips and shoulders were able to muster a counter-attack because the FN 5.7 must have shattered or broken bones. The high rate of wounded vicitms to fatalities was the direct result of the shooting ability of Hassan (or lack thereof), and not because the 5.7x28 round is not lethal.
5. Sgt. Kimberly Munley (base civilian police), one of the first responders, was immediately disabled with 5.7x28 bullet shrapnels to her wrist and a second 5.7x28 bullet broke her femur. The light 5.7x28 commercial ammo showed that it can shatter large bones due to its velocity
6. According to medical personnel, there was so much blood in the room that it was difficult to get to the victims because the floor became very slippery. One can conclude that the commercial 5.7x28 rounds can fragment or tumble, causing immense blood loss.
7. It took five bullets (which I assume was a 9 mm) from Sgt Mark Todd to stop Hasan. And he survived his wounds (no available info on where he was hit, except that one of the bullets paralyzed Hasan).

In conclusion:
1. The FN 5.7 is definitely a very lethal round. 100% fatality for COM shots.
2. The FN 5.7 is a man-stopper. Three military men tried to charge Hasan, and all three were stopped.
2. The FN 5.7 is a very incapacitating round, if extremities are hit, because it is powerful enough to break the femur (which is the largest bone in the body)
3. The fragmentation or tumbling effect of commercial ammo can cause a lot of blood loss.


words fail me.
 
Posts: 7548 | Registered: April 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I like my Sig MPX SBR personally.
 
Posts: 612 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: March 21, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have been shooting an MPX in recent matches and doing well, I like it. But for me why kid yourself, just get a 5.56 for home defense.
FWIW


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10966 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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