If anyone has experience with either or both of these, could you tell me what the practical difference is supposed to be between the two? FWIW, I'm looking for something to go on an Armalite 20" .308.
July 04, 2019, 01:32 PM
I have the Micro version. 2 came factory on SR15s. I put a set of Micros also on an additional rifle that I built about 2 years ago.
The micros have a smaller footprint and are overall more slim. I do not believe that there is any benefit to the larger based version.
They are among (if not the) finest back up irons you can buy.
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July 04, 2019, 01:44 PM
I have the the micro rear on my 6720. Love it. I prefer it to the standard sized one. Practically they do the same thing, just one takes up less rear estate. I've seen units with the mirco rears on their M4's and I haven't heard of any issues.
LMT has a nice set of sights for their 308 MWS. You can get them in Imperial or metric. When mine is complete it will be getting these (imperial most likely).
Thanks for the tip on the LMTs; I'll definitely take a look at them.
No one can really tell me why the larger-base rear is supposed to be better. Now I'm really curious, at least as to why Knight's keeps trying to sell them and at a premium.
July 04, 2019, 04:25 PM
I honestly think they were just first, and that they are not necessarily better. Later they were minaturized. Why the premium I have no idea but I would wager they produce a lot less of them than the micro's. The larger size was used on the Mk12 uppers but the micro's are the current BUIS for the USMC (the original BUIS was the MaTech but it was replaced by the KAC micro. The MaTech is still utilized but if replacement is needed you get a KAC). So a lot more micro's around.
July 06, 2019, 04:09 PM
If your a clone-a-holic, you would buy the non micro for your mk12 mod 1/2.
...sleeping under the shade tree, out back of the tree house....
July 06, 2019, 06:09 PM
I was going to get a pic of the micro and the standard but apparently my MK12 is still in Idaho....
I actually shoot irons most of the time. I enjoy them. Yes, I know optics are the wave of the future and yes, my RCO is zeroed...but more often than not I take it off and shoot with the irons. It's just fun. Reminds me of laying in the back yard and shooting popsicle sticks that had I set up in my mom's flower garden. Clipped them with a Crossman pellet gun. 25 yards.
I chose the KAC micro's for personal use because they are good and I am familiar with them. If you can hit a target at 500 yards with them they can't be all bad lol.
When my MWS is complete I will be going with LMT irons.
KAC micro on a Colt 6720:
July 06, 2019, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Il Cattivo: Now I'm really curious, at least as to why Knight's keeps trying to sell them and at a premium.
KAC sells a lot of stuff to DoD and foreign militaries.
I would venture to say that one or both of the sights is part of a package, or has a NSN, or meets some specific technical requirement for a contract. Sure, you can try to get .Gov to accept the "new hotness" model if you want, or you can keep selling them what they asked for.
I have a set of the older micro offset KACs - they work well, but so do the Magpul Pros (standard and offsets, I have both). One think I dislike about KACs is the adjustable rear aperture is just a plastic insert, easily lost; where as the Magpuls flip forward / back.
Only reason I'd go KAC is if (1) you've used them before and really like them or (2) are playing the 'clone' game.
I think Magpul ID'ed the market correctly for a KAC like metal sight set, which KAC is often out of stock or priced way high.
July 06, 2019, 08:17 PM
Knights sells mostly to the military. There are things the civilian consumer likes Knights just does not produce a lot of. They are contract driven. If they get a contract for 'x' amount of rear BUIS for the MK12 they produce it....and make a few for more for civilian sale.
The full size rear are about done in the .mil. Last NSN I could find was a "local" one from the last MK12 TM (2012). Meaning it was never type classified. Not a bad sight, just superseded by the micro. Not better, just newer. The micro does have a current NSN.
Like RINO said, the best reasons to chose it are if you are familiar with it (as I am) or if you want to make a clone. It is a good sight, don't get me wrong. But for your intended purpose (a 308 AR) I would personally look toward the LMT set.
This is the last M4 Uncle let me play with. I had a KAC Micro on it (little dusty lol).
July 06, 2019, 08:27 PM
It's interesting you guys would mention clones and the MK12. The one specific use I've come across for it is a MK12 clone. OTOH, it seems that all of Knight's new .308 rifles and uppers come with the Micro front and rear foldable sights. The Armalite AR10TAC20 I'm holding out for is a bit heavier, so I'm guessing the difference between the sights in terms of bulk won't matter.
mbinky, I know the factory website has the LMTs, but where else would you go shopping if you were trying to beat the factory price a bit? FWIW, I didn't find them at Brownells' or Optics Planet.
July 06, 2019, 08:45 PM
Here are the only two pics you will ever see of a MK12 KAC sight from an official manual. Notice the NSN (Item #5). After the 1005 (under 30mm small arms) there is an LL designator. This is a locally generated NSN. It might be Army I am not too familiar. The USMC would put a '99' there.
As for places to find the LMT sights I would look at the authorized LMT vendors. Tombstone is a vendor, and although they list it as a "special order" it is in stock on the LMT site so I figure they would get it quick. Primary Arms also is a LMT dealer.
Here is the NSN for the micro. Notice it has a standard NSN. 1005 (under 30mm small arms), 01 (country code=US) and the last seven is the unique identifier. You can look this up and get a .gov price and order it through your supply chain.
Matter of fact here is the public WebFlis data for it. Looking at the MOE (major organizational entity) codes it is only used by the USMC (DM) and USN (DN). DS is just DLA. And Uncle pays $123.19 The SMR code is PAOZZ, meaning it is a class 9 part. You order it. It is not a "secrep", a secondary repairable (you do a one for one exchange). PA=normally stocked, O=second echelon uses it, Z=not repairable, Z=dispose of at the level authorized to use it (2nd ech). Lol now that we have had our brief class on NSN's and SMR codes for my next trick I will teach you all how to read a morning maintenance report for a tank company....
So basically the large KAC rear flip is obsolete. Dam that took a lot of words and pics.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: mbinky,
July 09, 2019, 02:29 PM
I have the "old" version with the larger windage knob and it works well.
Haven't tried the micro yet.
Note: be sure you buy from a verified good supplier rather than somewhere like amazon or eBay. There are crappy Chinese fakes of almost every popular BUIS out there. I've been bit several times trying to save some dough.
--------------------------- My hovercraft is full of eels.
July 09, 2019, 03:25 PM
That I most definitely know. I got burned once on four of those little Roomba filters (how do you screw those up?) and that was enough to get my attention.