The FA bug has been working its way under my skin lately... the cost of shooting one usually quells the notion, but I have been giving more serious thoughts to taking the plunge lately.

For those who own or have owned transferable FA's, I would appreciate your thoughts, feelings, etc. on ownership and your experiences. Some of my thoughts so far:

-For the foreseeable future, just one platform is in my reach. The M16 and HK sear families seem to offer the most versatility as far as caliber and configuration changes, and a factory RR M16 appears to require the least amount of tuning (timing, fitting, etch) compared to the HK's. Any other platforms that offer the best bang for the buck?

-The ammo costs are expected with burning through more rounds per shooting session, but which parts wear out and need to be replaced frequently? Is there one rifle that stands up better than others?

-The cost of admission... transferable FA's continue to increase in cost, and as much as I would love to see the 86 Hughes Amendment repealed so post-86 MG's can be thrown in the pool it doesn't seem likely in my lifetime. Has anyone liquidated all or nearly all of a current collection to fund a MG? Was it worth it? A FNC or KAC-556k would take the sale of a handful of my current collection, whereas a Colt RR M16 would take nearly the entire collection.

-Long term enjoyment... after the first few range trips of dumping a handful of mags, does FA lose its novelty?

I've owned three select fire M16's. Just recently sold my last one, a Colt M16a1.

The novelty does wear off, especially once you realize even shooting short bursts isn't that much fun or very effective. I was also concerned about using something that had so much value - the Colt stayed in the safe for years without much use.

I prefer SBR's much more for a lot less money.

If I were just wanting a shooter grade M16, look for a non Colt lower. You will save a lot of money.

Look at the offerings from BRP Corporation (Stemple machine guns).

http://www.brpguns.com/categories/Machineguns/

http://jrstemplearms.com

I had the opportunity to shoot some of them and was really impressed. There are a lot of other reasons I feel they are a great product for those looking for a full auto firearm.

I have a STG U-9 SF in ATF purgatory. I plan to provide the group here with a review once I receive it, but that probably won't be until late this year based off the current wait times.

Some of the reasons I went with it is that you're getting a new machine gun rather than a used one with unknown round count which is the case with most transferable guns. Also if you read the history of these guns you'll see that they are a limited edition and I like that from an investment perspective. I also like that they are a subgun chambered in inexpensive 9 mm (at least they one I chose is). They are very easy to control and quite accurate. Check out some of their videos to see them in action. Lastly Mike at Stemple, and Brian at BRP are great guys to talk to and very knowledgeable about their products and all things full auto and other NFA goodies.

If I can answer anything else about them for you let me know, or go right to the source at Stemple or BRP. I think you'll be impressed.

I'd buy an RDIAS or LL over a transferable lower if M16/AR15.

I shot an SOT friend's HK53 clone w/ another friend's Fleming sear in it last weekend and his postie MP5 today.

I, too, have the bug but not the budget. Luckily, I'm a trustee on the Fleming so conjugal visits are encouraged.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: PGT,

Do a search for the bump saw thread on arfcom.


Simulate a light machine gun for a small fraction of the cost.

I've fired an M-16 from the shoulder and it was largely a waste of ammo at any real distance.

I think you should look at a pistol caliber submachine gun. They are usually cheaper then a M16 or H&K. A lot of people start out with a MAC. You can add a Lage upper that makes it a little more user friendly. I think you could get into one for a lot less the a M16 or H&K. This is a very complex decision. Machine guns are expensive. You don't want to spend a lot of time and money and be unhappy.

quote:

Originally posted by Ironworker:
A lot of people start out with a MAC.

I think you could get into one for a lot less the a M16 or H&K.

Significantly less. Something like a MAC-10 runs ~$6k-$7k. A M16 or MP5 runs $30k+ (including just auto sears for those).

You can get a decent idea of current pricing from http://machinegunpriceguide.co...ml/price_guides.html

Sten's are even less than MAC's aren't they?

M16's, as in the sendra etc conversions, can be had for 20K or so,

Colt's will always be a bit higher, even the converted ones,

AR18's, FNC etc are usually less expensive, but sometimes parts (esp an AR18) can be hard to find

MAC's are fun,,, for a bit,

had one about 10 yrs,


check the major sites (subgun, Sturm etc) for current pricing and what is out there,

do your research, some of the more exotic or less common stuff can have hefty prices for accessories and magazines,


someone mentioned being able to control a FA,

with practice, it is not that hard, even in the larger calibers

I got a mac 10 with 10 OEM mags. Runs like a top. Never had a ftf or fte. Love it. No lage upper on mine.

If I could make a suggestion, on a fun and controllable FA, I'd go for a Colt 9mm DOE with a happy switch. There are several ways to get there.

You need to ask yourself the following questions. The answers will guild your actions.

1) What is my budget?
2) Are you a meat hunter or trophy hunter?
3) What do you enjoy doing the most; shoot or show?
4) Do you enjoy tinkering or do you just want something that 'works first time, every time'?
5) Do you intend to have friends and family enjoy your new toy too?

Thank you all for your input. I've shot mp5s and colt smg's and definitely agree 9mm is manageable (and affordable) on FA. The questions MG34_Dan poses are fantastic...looking through the safe I would (tearfully) sell enough to land in the $10k-$12k range. I'm not looking for a safe queen, but something that maintains collectablity as well. When it leaves the safe it would be to shoot, and I definitely want something that works the first time, every time (I don't have a lot of tinkering time). Others would shoot as well.

That all being said, the 9mm vector UZI's caught my attention. Any horrific warnings on these?

Finally, had anyone sold items in their collection to fund FA toys and painfully regretted it later?

Shot many belt-fed MGs in the Army (M249 and M60) and M16A2s w/ burst.

Never had the desire to get one after I got out for a variety of reasons.

If you have the $$$ and feel like jumping through the hoops - go for it. But for any practical applications I can foresee they aren't worth it.

------------------------------

Submachine guns seem to be less costly to shoot.
The Uzi's were the most plentiful for a while. Now most have dried up. If you find an imi conversion, you are looking at $12,000-$15000 for a good one. But even the rattiest one can be rebuilt and refinished to nearly new condition. Stay away from registered bolts.

I happen to be selling a mini uzi at the moment. I haven't seen one for sale in the last 6 months, yet they don't sell so easy.

A registered sear and an MP5 host will set you back about 40K, so it's getting out of hand. The prices are going up with no end in sight.

Good luck with your search.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by Ironworker:
A lot of people start out with a MAC.

I think you could get into one for a lot less the a M16 or H&K.

Significantly less. Something like a MAC-10 runs ~$6k-$7k. A M16 or MP5 runs $30k+ (including just auto sears for those).

You can get a decent idea of current pricing from http://machinegunpriceguide.co...ml/price_guides.html

Thanks for the link Rogue. That's a pretty cool site. Amazing what they've done since the end of 2012. I didn't realize that MP5 sears were "only" around $20k and an UZI was around $7k back then.

Just join the Army Reserve or National Guard. They will pay you to shoot fully automatic weapons.

Owning full auto weapons is really now the province of doctors/lawyers and other wealthy individuals.. I bought 2 HK sears in the late 80's=1992 and they were less than $500 each.

Now, ready to rock HK rifles are anywhere between
$30,000-40,000. The last 20 years has shown
astonishing price growth in NFA weapon prices.. it would be interesting to plot the Dow Jones and S&P
500 against machine gun values..

This message has been edited. Last edited by: heckler,

There are some interesting and amazing F/A weapons out there for sure and unless you shoot them often you always end with a silly grin on your face—especially if you are sharing the experience with other enthusiasts.

I have come to believe that there are really only two ways to go in the F/A world. You either want to end up with an M16 registered lower, RDIAS or the like OR an HK Auto Sear. Either path is expensive but almost everyone I know in the F/A game ends up there and took a much more expensive route on the way.

Unless the laws change, any F/A should be a good investment over time.

Henryrifle

I bought a BRP STG U9. I love it. It's very controlable. I can dump a 75 round drum into a paper plate in just a few seconds.