Thanks again for all of the input. I'm leaning towards the converted or other than factory Colt option now. I too got to experience belt feds and full auto's on uncle sam's time, but that only added to my desire to own one. Might as well enjoy the freedom to own a select fire rifle if you want!

quote:

Originally posted by MG34_Dan:

Well, that was a mistake. I passed on a '69 ZL1 Camaro which sold in '74 for $4250. That was my big mistake, but I learned from it. I did not repeat the same error when it came to machine guns. As soon as I was transferred to a MG friendly state, Texas, in '87 I started buying machine guns.

Only one big mistake?!

I've passed on so many good MG deals over the years due to my not being in a financial position to buy. Painful.

I think one of your best purchases was the Die Hard transferable AUG. That is just some great history. Any idea what other films and TV shows that used it?

quote:

Originally posted by Creeping_Death:
Thanks again for all of the input. I'm leaning towards the converted or other than factory Colt option now. I too got to experience belt feds and full auto's on uncle sam's time, but that only added to my desire to own one. Might as well enjoy the freedom to own a select fire rifle if you want!

Awesome. A wise decision, you will not regret it. Consider looking for a factory Colt 614. Many of the non-Colt RRs will have spec issues. Unless you stumble upon a crazy good deal, cost of bringing one up to spec and re-anodizing will likely put you within spitting distance of a 614. And be very cautious about what you buy if buying a non-Colt RR. Be sure you can either inspect it, try a few in spec uppers, and maybe even shoot it or get high resolution photos to ensure there are no obvious issues. A poster on another forum just mentioned that a non-colt RR he bought has major issues that weren't disclosed. Best to do your due diligence when considering any purchase.

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:

Only one big mistake?!

I've passed on so many good MG deals over the years due to my not being in a financial position to buy. Painful.

I think one of your best purchases was the Die Hard transferable AUG. That is just some great history. Any idea what other films and TV shows that used it?

I guess I should have used the word 'biggest' rather than 'big'.

As for my AUG, it seems to also have been used in the movie The Running Man. I was told it was used in other movies, but no other specific titles were mentioned.

quote:

Originally posted by Ironworker:

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:
Too much negativity toward MGs in a MG thread. .

ditto!

and not sure why

I agree. I have been thinking about this. I don't remember any threads where someone is thinking about buying a more conventional rifle or pistol and getting responses like some of the negative ones here. I have never seen anybody say " I shot a Garand or a 1911 or an M1 Carbine in the Army, and after a few shots, I got tired of it, save your money". I own and shoot all kinds of guns. I like some more then others, but enjoy shooting them all.

Because if you have never fired one before, it can be eye opening the first time you get a chance to do so.

When you are talking about spending $15-$25k on a RR M16, I don't think it is a bad thing for people who have shot one to suggest that for them personally, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.

I'm not saying all the guys who love their machine guns are wrong.

I'm just saying I am glad I got to shoot an M16 at targets on the same 3-gun course of fire that I had previously cleaned much faster with my bare bones AR-15 carbine.



The title of the post was 'Consideration on Full-Auto's".


My consideration is that there are other firearms and gear that I would rather spend that money on. Others may choose differently.

It's all for fun.

quote:

Originally posted by MG34_Dan:

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:

Only one big mistake?!

I've passed on so many good MG deals over the years due to my not being in a financial position to buy. Painful.

I think one of your best purchases was the Die Hard transferable AUG. That is just some great history. Any idea what other films and TV shows that used it?

I guess I should have used the word 'biggest' rather than 'big'.

As for my AUG, it seems to also have been used in the movie The Running Man. I was told it was used in other movies, but no other specific titles were mentioned.

That's you!



I always heard on ARFcom about the guy who had the AUG from Die Hard.




Very cool.

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:

quote:

Originally posted by 45 Cal:

Save your money,the hard on goes away pretty quickly.

I would agree with this, after I got a chance to put some rounds down range with an M16.


Unless it is a small amount of money for you, if you MUST scratch that itch, save the $ and spend most of it on ammo. Find the Bumpsaw thread on AR15.com. Those guys are using bumpfire stocks, echo triggers, heavy uppers with bipods, and D60 magazines to build what are essentially poor-man's SAWs.

Totally legal, pretty legitimate, and much cheaper than a real machinegun.

I tried the other options ... and it sorta worked, however after a trip to Vegas where I shot a real M16 and MP5 I was disappointed when I got home and shot mine again.

And while my hard-on does fade a bit after a few mags ... its back in full force the next time I pick it up ... I think its called "recovery time" ... kinda like with wimmins

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:

quote:

Originally posted by Ironworker:
I agree. I have been thinking about this. I don't remember any threads where someone is thinking about buying a more conventional rifle or pistol and getting responses like some of the negative ones here. I have never seen anybody say " I shot a Garand or a 1911 or an M1 Carbine in the Army, and after a few shots, I got tired of it, save your money". I own and shoot all kinds of guns. I like some more then others, but enjoy shooting them all.

My consideration is that there are other firearms and gear that I would rather spend that money on. Others may choose differently.

Bingo

A few years ago I decided to get into the precision rifle game. Talked to some companies directly, visited many company websites, looked at blogs. Lots of cheerleading "buy it, buy it, sis-boom-bah". Just before pulling out the credit card I conversed with some straight-talking experienced riflemen -- no punches pulled. They laid out their opinions and directed me to a website which discussed that rifle company's flaws.

I would have made a big mistake. In the precision game, that means a $4k-$7k investment mistake. Ammo, training, and competition costs are now multiple times my original investment. Close call.

I'm not a cheerleader and never will be. My opinions evolve over time; they don't change with the wind. I'm not here to make people feel good. Some may call that negativity. I've been on this planet enough years that I call it reality.

The investment is seriously steep for the return on MGs. It's been that way for years.

I know three transferable owners and they never take their guns out anymore (even though they will shoot their non-MGs and SBR guns). The only folks I know who regularly shoot their MGs are dealers with post-samples.

In my time in the industry, I also got paid to educate myself behind the triggers of AKs, UZIs, MP5s, M16, M240, etc.

If I bought an MG today, it would be for investment purposes only. Just like every other gun I own, I'd do in usage analysis and it turns out that the range that I have membership to (and it's a very nice range) does not allow full-auto. The only place I'd be able to shoot an MG would be out in the woods and that has its own issues.

If you're serious about buying an MG, I would take a three day vacation in Vegas. Every morning, go and rent yourself the MG of your choice (the one you're thinking of buying). Put a case or two downrange. Then go back and do it again the next day. Then go back and do it again. After all the money and time you've invested in renting the real thing, if you still want to buy, at least you will know what you're in for.

If, however, you figure: "I'll pass," you'll have spent much less time and money than you otherwise would have poorly invested in a thrill that would much more cheaply satisfied.

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:
.

I know three transferable owners and they never take their guns out anymore (even though they will shoot their non-MGs and SBR guns). The only folks I know who regularly shoot their MGs are dealers with post-samples.


.

while I do have a safe queen FA, I have others that get range time,

and know a handful of folks that I have sold to, or did the transfers for, that shoot their MG's,
some often,

would I buy and shoot a 98% Colt Thompson,,
at least one mag,, then in the safe for the investment, if it was priced right,,,

will I take my AO M1A1 out a few times a year or my Sendra M16,

damn skippy, whenever I can

I'm buying a Reising M50 today. Should be fun by all accounts

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
That's you!
I always heard on ARFcom about the guy who had the AUG from Die Hard.

Very cool.

Yep, that's me. To make a long story short; it was beat to $hit when I got it. Plus it was cheap as it needed plenty of tender loving care. Nobody knew its history 'till I contacted Dan Shea about the Stembridge guns he liquidated. BINGO! The truth was revealed.

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
I'm buying a Reising M50 today. Should be fun by all accounts

nice,

magazines have gotten stupid high for them ,,,

I saw it posted earlier, maybe on the first page but I'm too lazy to go look for it.

My advise is to know your intent.
If you are buying an MG to shoot, buy a shooter! If you're buying a safe-queen, you'll pay top dollar and you'll have a lot less fun!

Take care of it and it will always be worth what the market will pay ... and I doubt you can ever loose money on it!

I bought both of mine about 6 years ago, just before the prices sky-rocketed again ... looking on the MG sale boards it appears mine have near doubled, and I've had a blast with them! So much more fun than watching a CD account or stock market fund, unless your into that sort of thing.

The history on my M16 is, it was born a 20" Colt with a skinny barrel and triangle hand-guards, 3-finger muzzle break ... DOM circa 1967, it came out of a prison in California.

It's not mint but in pretty good shape; it has rack wear. The first thing I did (before I even shot it) was to strip it down to the receiver and put all the original parts in a box, then turn it into the gun I wanted to shoot. I bought a complete 11.5" Diemaco de-milled kit, a bit later I got a 9mm Colt 10.5" de-milled kit with the 3-round burst (which helps to keep ammo costs down but isn't as much fun as a mag-dump).
I don't remember which caliber came after that but with 7 different calibers and 9 different uppers I've acquired I've never tired of it and I've shot it a lot ...

For my HK registered sear, I have 6 hosts and 4 calibers ... I've yet to figure out how you can get tired of that.

Now all that said, I do enjoy smooth and accurate weapons of all types; and I've picked up good info from fritz and a few others, even if I don't get into other disciplines to the extent they do; I do enjoy the diversity, both here and at the range!

quote:

Originally posted by Creeping_Death:
The FA bug has been working its way under my skin lately... the cost of shooting one usually quells the notion, but I have been giving more serious thoughts to taking the plunge lately.

For those who own or have owned transferable FA's, I would appreciate your thoughts, feelings, etc. on ownership and your experiences. Some of my thoughts so far:

-For the foreseeable future, just one platform is in my reach. The M16 and HK sear families seem to offer the most versatility as far as caliber and configuration changes, and a factory RR M16 appears to require the least amount of tuning (timing, fitting, etch) compared to the HK's. Any other platforms that offer the best bang for the buck?

-The ammo costs are expected with burning through more rounds per shooting session, but which parts wear out and need to be replaced frequently? Is there one rifle that stands up better than others?

-The cost of admission... transferable FA's continue to increase in cost, and as much as I would love to see the 86 Hughes Amendment repealed so post-86 MG's can be thrown in the pool it doesn't seem likely in my lifetime. Has anyone liquidated all or nearly all of a current collection to fund a MG? Was it worth it? A FNC or KAC-556k would take the sale of a handful of my current collection, whereas a Colt RR M16 would take nearly the entire collection.

-Long term enjoyment... after the first few range trips of dumping a handful of mags, does FA lose its novelty?

IMO, yes, it loses it's novelty. The only FA I've fired (M249, M60, M2) I was getting paid to shoot. As cool as they are, I'd never spend my own money on one....unless NFA was repealed, then I'd certainly have some auto AKs and ARs, but nothing belt-fed. There are too many other things in life that are more enjoyable for the money, like boating, traveling, and snowmobiling.

If I was Bill Gates type of rich, I suppose I would change my tune. "Hey, let's go shoot the minigun off the back of my yacht. We can fill a rowboat with tannerite and waste it".

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
I'm buying a Reising M50 today. Should be fun by all accounts

nice,

magazines have gotten stupid high for them ,,,

Yes....I'm usually at a 5 mag minimum but since this example only comes with one, I'll likely add two more initially and then keep my eyes peeled for good deals on spares.

quote:

Originally posted by Creeping_Death:
*
Has anyone liquidated all or nearly all of a current collection to fund a MG? Was it worth it? A FNC or KAC-556k would take the sale of a handful of my current collection, whereas a Colt RR M16 would take nearly the entire collection.
*

I funded mine with an inheritance windfall ... wasn't expecting it and the wife said to do with it as I wanted ... however I have liquidated some to fund other things, among the biggest was about $10K to start a collage fund for my daughter, $28K to buy a sports car, weapons ... $3K to buy a Colt LMG, $5,000 to buy a pre-ban AUG A2 $5500 to build a precision 6.5 Creedmoor ... but none of the other liquidations have paid off and all are worth about the same or less than the original investment.
The only ones that have really appreciated are the MG's ... what I paid $10K and $12K for are now worth $20-$30K each.

quote:

Originally posted by DamageInc:
*
If I was Bill Gates type of rich, I suppose I would change my tune. "Hey, let's go shoot the minigun off the back of my yacht. We can fill a rowboat with tannerite and waste it".

I like the way you think!

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
I'm buying a Reising M50 today. Should be fun by all accounts

Nifty. One of the much lesser-known WW2 subguns.

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
I'm buying a Reising M50 today. Should be fun by all accounts

nice,

magazines have gotten stupid high for them ,,,

Yes....I'm usually at a 5 mag minimum but since this example only comes with one, I'll likely add two more initially and then keep my eyes peeled for good deals on spares.

here in central VA, they were plentiful and cheap back in the 80's,

guns too, had a few thru the shop in various configurations

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:
The investment is seriously steep for the return on MGs. It's been that way for years.

I know three transferable owners and they never take their guns out anymore (even though they will shoot their non-MGs and SBR guns). The only folks I know who regularly shoot their MGs are dealers with post-samples.

In my time in the industry, I also got paid to educate myself behind the triggers of AKs, UZIs, MP5s, M16, M240, etc.

If I bought an MG today, it would be for investment purposes only. Just like every other gun I own, I'd do in usage analysis and it turns out that the range that I have membership to (and it's a very nice range) does not allow full-auto. The only place I'd be able to shoot an MG would be out in the woods and that has its own issues.

If you're serious about buying an MG, I would take a three day vacation in Vegas. Every morning, go and rent yourself the MG of your choice (the one you're thinking of buying). Put a case or two downrange. Then go back and do it again the next day. Then go back and do it again. After all the money and time you've invested in renting the real thing, if you still want to buy, at least you will know what you're in for.

If, however, you figure: "I'll pass," you'll have spent much less time and money than you otherwise would have poorly invested in a thrill that would much more cheaply satisfied.

LDD I think this is a very sound assessment of your own personal collecting/shooting desires. I also think it is wise to go out and shoot as many different fullautos as possible to determine what one wants in a transferable or if buying a MG is not for them. I shot various MGs as rentals, transferables owned by local shooters, and attended Ruben Mendiola's MG shoots in Miami while in college. I knew I HAD to personally own MGs. Thankfully I started buying in '02 before the prices really skyrocketed. My last purchase was in 2015, a fleming HK sear that was under market. I was able to liquidate a bunch of semiautos and accessories that were never used. This was a great decision. The items I sold funded the entire sear and now the sear has appreciated almost $10k. It will be used frequently.

MGs are not for everyone. I am thankful for this because it leaves more for guy's like me who love to own, collect, and shoot them. If I ever get to a point where my MGs don't come to the range with me for some exercise, I will cash out and let someone else who will actually shoot them have their day.

If choosing something solely as an investment vehicle, I think there are better options. MGs are not immediately liquid due to the nature of the NFA paperwork. As a shooter, I think they are great investments because one can enjoy and use them, all the while their value appreciates.

Dan Shea has written several great opinion pieces over the years with regard to MGs as investments, both in SAR and on Subguns. Search the Subguns.com MG discussion archives and you can find them.