Considerations On Full-Auto's

June 19, 2017, 04:15 AM

Creeping_Death

Awesome feedback...thank you all.

The Colt RR M16's appear to be the most expensive...besides collectability and resale value, what do the factory Colt M16's offer that converted varieties and other brand RR M16's don't? As long as the lower is the small-pin type, replacement parts should be no problem right? Finally, and makes or conversions to completely steer away from? I'm finding some M16's under the $20k mark, but if they're problem children I would appreciate input on who to avoid.

June 19, 2017, 08:07 AM

hile

If I every jump into the FA game, I'd probably end up with 2, an M16/M4 RDIAS and the HK sear/fire control box as mentioned on page 1.

June 19, 2017, 09:26 AM

IndianaBoy

quote:
Originally posted by Creeping_Death:
Awesome feedback...thank you all.

The Colt RR M16's appear to be the most expensive...besides collectability and resale value, what do the factory Colt M16's offer that converted varieties and other brand RR M16's don't? As long as the lower is the small-pin type, replacement parts should be no problem right? Finally, and makes or conversions to completely steer away from? I'm finding some M16's under the $20k mark, but if they're problem children I would appreciate input on who to avoid.

You nailed it here.

M16 lowers are generally not problematic. If you ever had an issue with a conversion being out of spec (unlikely), there are talented SOTs who can weld an egged out hole, re-drill, and re-anodize.

Such work would probably lower the value of a Colt, but if done by a GOOD SOT, it would increase the value of a conversion if it were freshly re-worked.

If you are buying a shooter, buy a shooter.

June 19, 2017, 12:35 PM

hile

Rereading the first page, I saw mention of the RDIAS for AR-style weapon systems and a registered HK sear/box (Fire control group). That's the first I've heard of the HK variant. IF one can find the HK sear or FCG, does that mean one could build, for example an MP5 in any caliber one chose as well as a G3 or any other HK Long gun (pretty much besides a 416)? Is there an example where one of these was up for sale?

June 19, 2017, 01:41 PM

45 Cal

I am an old man now,uncle sugar let me shoot many when I was a young man,at 75 the thrill is gone.
Save your money,the hard on goes away pretty quickly.

June 19, 2017, 02:17 PM

IndianaBoy

quote:
Originally posted by 45 Cal:

Save your money,the hard on goes away pretty quickly.

I would agree with this, after I got a chance to put some rounds down range with an M16.

Unless it is a small amount of money for you, if you MUST scratch that itch, save the $ and spend most of it on ammo. Find the Bumpsaw thread on AR15.com. Those guys are using bumpfire stocks, echo triggers, heavy uppers with bipods, and D60 magazines to build what are essentially poor-man's SAWs.

Totally legal, pretty legitimate, and much cheaper than a real machinegun.

June 19, 2017, 03:54 PM

Ironworker

quote:
Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
quote:
Originally posted by 45 Cal:

Save your money,the hard on goes away pretty quickly.

I would agree with this, after I got a chance to put some rounds down range with an M16.

Unless it is a small amount of money for you, if you MUST scratch that itch, save the $ and spend most of it on ammo. Find the Bumpsaw thread on AR15.com. Those guys are using bumpfire stocks, echo triggers, heavy uppers with bipods, and D60 magazines to build what are essentially poor-man's SAWs.

Totally legal, pretty legitimate, and much cheaper than a real machinegun.

I think that is very much a matter of opinion. I don't understand how you could get bored shooting something like a Thompson or and M16 and still be exited about shooting a 1911 or a Ruger 10/22.

June 19, 2017, 04:43 PM

JoshNC

quote:
Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
quote:
Originally posted by 45 Cal:

Save your money,the hard on goes away pretty quickly.

I would agree with this, after I got a chance to put some rounds down range with an M16.

Unless it is a small amount of money for you, if you MUST scratch that itch, save the $ and spend most of it on ammo. Find the Bumpsaw thread on AR15.com. Those guys are using bumpfire stocks, echo triggers, heavy uppers with bipods, and D60 magazines to build what are essentially poor-man's SAWs.

Totally legal, pretty legitimate, and much cheaper than a real machinegun.

I completely disagree. I shot my first fullauto when I was 8 years old (fullsize UZI). Then shot a post sample mp5/40 about once a month at a local range while in college and attended Ruben Mendiola's MG shoot in Miami. I started buying MGs in '02 and the enjoyment I get today is just as it was at the start.

A slide fire or other similar simulator is very close but not the same as the real deal...think blow up doll vs. real lady friend....just an analogy, I have no experience with a blow up doll

quote:
Originally posted by Ironworker:

I think that is very much a matter of opinion. I don't understand how you could get bored shooting something like a Thompson or and M16 and still be exited about shooting a 1911 or a Ruger 10/22.

Truth.

June 19, 2017, 05:55 PM

fritz

quote:
Originally posted by Ironworker:
I think that is very much a matter of opinion. I don't understand how you could get bored shooting something like a Thompson or and M16 and still be exited about shooting a 1911 or a Ruger 10/22.

It's definitely a personal choice. For those of use competing in matches which require precise shot placements, full autos are a once-every-few-years mag dump novelty. Then we hand the gun back to the owner and move on.

A quality 1911 can be a very accurate pistol. On its own, not a firearm I get all excited about, but when paired with a carbine in a two-gun match situation -- now we gots some fun.

I'm not overly thrilled about a 10/22. Give me a Kidd or a Volquartson conversion and I perk up a bit. Change things up to Anschutz, Kimber, or Remington 40X bolt actions -- now we gots some fun. These are precision firearms with amazing capabilities from such a lowly bullet.

Instead of that full auto M16, I'll shoot a precision AR-15 at the drop of a hat. The accuracy of these semi-auto rifles can be jaw dropping for those used to rack ARs.

For real excitement, give me a precision bolt action rifle. Thread-the-needle-at-distance accuracy. Incredible pressure on the shooter to exhibit flawless technique while breaking the shot -- the bullet's impact location doesn't lie. For the real deal, make a team of a precision AR shooter and a precision bolt action shooter, put some steel out at distance, and start the clock. Play ball...

June 19, 2017, 07:21 PM

JoshNC

quote:
Originally posted by fritz:

It's definitely a personal choice. For those of use competing in matches which require precise shot placements, full autos are a once-every-few-years mag dump novelty. Then we hand the gun back to the owner and move on.

A quality 1911 can be a very accurate pistol. On its own, not a firearm I get all excited about, but when paired with a carbine in a two-gun match situation -- now we gots some fun.

I'm not overly thrilled about a 10/22. Give me a Kidd or a Volquartson conversion and I perk up a bit. Change things up to Anschutz, Kimber, or Remington 40X bolt actions -- now we gots some fun. These are precision firearms with amazing capabilities from such a lowly bullet.

Instead of that full auto M16, I'll shoot a precision AR-15 at the drop of a hat. The accuracy of these semi-auto rifles can be jaw dropping for those used to rack ARs.

For real excitement, give me a precision bolt action rifle. Thread-the-needle-at-distance accuracy. Incredible pressure on the shooter to exhibit flawless technique while breaking the shot -- the bullet's impact location doesn't lie. For the real deal, make a team of a precision AR shooter and a precision bolt action shooter, put some steel out at distance, and start the clock. Play ball...

Very true and I am always amazed at the wide scope of interests within our shooting community. I enjoy all those things you mention, maybe with exception of shooting 22lr, which I find boring even if fullauto. While I enjoy shooting distance, shooting matches (which I've not done in some time), etc my absolute favorite is shooting fullauto. And hey, I'm glad everyone hasn't been bitten by the fullauto bug....more for those of us who need to scratch that itch.

June 19, 2017, 09:37 PM

IndianaBoy

quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
quote:
Originally posted by Ironworker:
I think that is very much a matter of opinion. I don't understand how you could get bored shooting something like a Thompson or and M16 and still be exited about shooting a 1911 or a Ruger 10/22.

It's definitely a personal choice. For those of use competing in matches which require precise shot placements, full autos are a once-every-few-years mag dump novelty. Then we hand the gun back to the owner and move on.

A quality 1911 can be a very accurate pistol. On its own, not a firearm I get all excited about, but when paired with a carbine in a two-gun match situation -- now we gots some fun.

I'm not overly thrilled about a 10/22. Give me a Kidd or a Volquartson conversion and I perk up a bit. Change things up to Anschutz, Kimber, or Remington 40X bolt actions -- now we gots some fun. These are precision firearms with amazing capabilities from such a lowly bullet.

Instead of that full auto M16, I'll shoot a precision AR-15 at the drop of a hat. The accuracy of these semi-auto rifles can be jaw dropping for those used to rack ARs.

For real excitement, give me a precision bolt action rifle. Thread-the-needle-at-distance accuracy. Incredible pressure on the shooter to exhibit flawless technique while breaking the shot -- the bullet's impact location doesn't lie. For the real deal, make a team of a precision AR shooter and a precision bolt action shooter, put some steel out at distance, and start the clock. Play ball...

Yup. You nailed it.

My preference is a USPSA or 3-Gun match.

Most of my shooting is either matches, or drills training for matches. Tiny bits of rifle load development in there.

For what they cost, machine guns dont interest me. Belt fed would be fun, except the ammo bill....

Id rather have a PRS rifle with a Vortex Razor sitting on top. 6mm Creedmoor.

June 19, 2017, 10:58 PM

JoshNC

Too much negativity toward MGs in a MG thread. So here is some video.

100 yds on 12" steel, Colt M16 lower, LMT MRP 10.5" upper with SiCo saker 762/dead air mount, Gemtech suppressed bolt carrier. Feels like a 22lr.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fe...utu.be&v=d5eI8TswUFg

June 19, 2017, 11:20 PM

IndianaBoy

Yeah, that was neat.

June 20, 2017, 03:05 PM

kimberkid

Ditto JoshNC!

These are kind of old, I was fairly new at full auto and didn't have a good stance or lean into it as much as I should have. I'm doing better now!

This is my M16 with a Ares Defense Beltfed upper ... not a mag dump, but IIRC 100 rounds under 30 seconds

Here's the same M16 with a CMMG 22 conversion

For the HK fans a couple toys with my Registered Sear;

This is a CA89 (9mm MP5 Clone)

a cheap Century C93Pistol 223 HK53 clone)

I've also got the 7.62x39/HK52 clone but haven't uploaded it yet ... I also haven't made any vid's with my newest HK types, the Omega MP5 SD and Omega MP5K but I hope to soon ... they work perfectly, I just haven't gotten around to doing a video yet ... those I plan on using my 9mm Beta-mag so they'll be fun to!

June 21, 2017, 09:07 AM

lyman

quote:
Originally posted by JoshNC:
Too much negativity toward MGs in a MG thread. .

ditto!

and not sure why

June 21, 2017, 09:32 AM

Ironworker

quote:
Originally posted by lyman:
quote:
Originally posted by JoshNC:
Too much negativity toward MGs in a MG thread. .

ditto!

and not sure why

I agree. I have been thinking about this. I don't remember any threads where someone is thinking about buying a more conventional rifle or pistol and getting responses like some of the negative ones here. I have never seen anybody say " I shot a Garand or a 1911 or an M1 Carbine in the Army, and after a few shots, I got tired of it, save your money". I own and shoot all kinds of guns. I like some more then others, but enjoy shooting them all.

June 21, 2017, 03:45 PM

blasto

Since I live in a non-NFA state, I'll stick with my Slidefire. Owned 50+ transferable MG's in my lifetime and really can't see any appreciable difference between my $150 stock and the Colt M16A1 which is now worth probably 25K. Wish I had a crystal ball back in the day, but I did not...
Gave up my license in '86 due to local restrictions.

June 21, 2017, 04:09 PM

45 Cal

quote:
Originally posted by Ironworker:
quote:
Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
quote:
Originally posted by 45 Cal:

Save your money,the hard on goes away pretty quickly.

I would agree with this, after I got a chance to put some rounds down range with an M16.

Unless it is a small amount of money for you, if you MUST scratch that itch, save the $ and spend most of it on ammo. Find the Bumpsaw thread on AR15.com. Those guys are using bumpfire stocks, echo triggers, heavy uppers with bipods, and D60 magazines to build what are essentially poor-man's SAWs.

Totally legal, pretty legitimate, and much cheaper than a real machinegun.

I think that is very much a matter of opinion. I don't understand how you could get bored shooting something like a Thompson or and M16 and still be exited about shooting a 1911 or a Ruger 10/22.

How about a mawduce and a browning lite 30.
Thompsons,S/W, usies BAR.
Bar with out Tri is so much fun Sten mp5 Cobra.
Never shot M-16.
That is something the later guys did

June 21, 2017, 04:14 PM

MG34_Dan

quote:
Originally posted by blasto:
...Gave up my license in '86 due to local restrictions.

Well, that was a mistake. I passed on a '69 ZL1 Camaro which sold in '74 for $4250. That was my big mistake, but I learned from it. I did not repeat the same error when it came to machine guns. As soon as I was transferred to a MG friendly state, Texas, in '87 I started buying machine guns.