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M1 Carbine - with rear sight ground off (Update with pics pg 2) Login/Join 
The Unknown
Stuntman
Picture of bionic218
posted
Let's say you wanted a shooter grade M1C, and you found a correct Winchester M1 Carbine, but some previous owner had decided to grind off the rear sight to install a Williams peep, how much would that change how you feel about the gun?

Everything else is good to great on this rifle. Wood is very decent, park is in good shape (save where they ground off the rear sight). The bolt matches receiver, all GI parts, everything seems to fit-function-work as it should.

But, some mo-ron ground off the rear sight.
$700 - call it 750 with tax. Go? No go?

Question:
Would a previous owner grinding off the rear sight make you avoid a M1Carbine at a reasonable price?

Choices:
Yep, it's mangled. Move on.
No, who cares? Buy it.
WTF is an M1C?

 

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bionic218,
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: missouri | Registered: October 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
posted Hide Post
$700?

Not for that kind of money.

But...that's just me.


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Posts: 15936 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Repros that are good quality run 700, so there ya go. Years ago i had a period correct winni, spent the time making all the parts wini, (it had been rearesonalled) a dude at the gun range saw it, drooled over it, offered stupid money for it. He gave me his number. For 2 months i could not take it out and shoot it because i was afraid of damaging it. Sold it to him, took 200 of that 2k and bough a universal and abused the shit out of it, sold it for 400. Now i have a khar repro. I like it best.
 
Posts: 5026 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would absolutely buy it, especially if you already have a GI original version.

I buy guns to shoot, not collect, and I'd rather have a GI than a repro simply for reliability reasons when it comes to the M1C, but that's just me.

I don't know prices, but if the price is fair for what it is, yeah I'd buy.




“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik

The world's a dangerous place, we can help! http://portlandfirearmtraining.com/
 
Posts: 4167 | Location: Oregon | Registered: October 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hop head
Picture of lyman
posted Hide Post
M1C's are a sniper rifle, Cool


M1 carbine, ground on receiver, ,

best to look up the value of the parts not jacked with and part it out,

$700, no way, maybe 1/2 that



www.chesterfieldarmament.com
 
Posts: 7460 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unknown
Stuntman
Picture of bionic218
posted Hide Post
quote:
M1C's are a sniper rifle


I stand corrected, sir. You are absolutely right. Smile

(But if it was one of those at that price, I'd be cleaning it right now instead of asking questions Big Grin )

Thanks for the opinion on it as well. In the previous bubba's defense, the William's Peep installed is definitely a quality unit, just not the original. I can only assume (hope) there was some kind of damage to the dovetail that made it the only viable option. Surely a man would not destroy one peep sight to replace it with another peep sight, but I guess you never know.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: missouri | Registered: October 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I enjoy shooting my mix-master M1 carbine the most of all my firearms. The owner was a WWII or Korea vet who had all the parts reparkerized and all springs replaced and "tuned" by a local gunsmith to be a pure shooter. He fell on hard times and I (almost) felt bad about taking it off his hands for like $800.
 
Posts: 2543 | Location: Alexandria, VA | Registered: March 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get on the fifty!
Picture of Andyb
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Don't buy bubba'd milsurp

(Thats not a very good price either for a molested carbine)




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Posts: 3138 | Location: OK | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moderator
Picture of arcwelder76
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Please, please make your title more specific than just "M1 Carbine."

I'd buy it, but for way cheaper than $750. Grinding the rear sight off means the receiver is now garbage.

The M1C is a Garand.


Arc.
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Posts: 25557 | Location: Love that dirty water, oh | Registered: June 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd buy it but not for 750 or even 700, once the previous owner permanently altered the rifle by grinding off the original sight they seriously damaged the rifles value. That particular rifle is now just good as a shooter or maybe parted out.
 
Posts: 1054 | Location: USA | Registered: December 11, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unknown
Stuntman
Picture of bionic218
posted Hide Post
quote:
Please, please make your title more specific than just "M1 Carbine."


Done.

Follow up question. Can somebody point me to a genuine GI parts shooter grade carbine for less than $700?

Because I'm not finding much out there. I'm seeing used AO repros going for $695 in my area, so, while I agree the price seems high, what's better for less?
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: missouri | Registered: October 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of hjs157
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quote:
Originally posted by bionic218:
I can only assume (hope) there was some kind of damage to the dovetail that made it the only viable option. Surely a man would not destroy one peep sight to replace it with another peep sight, but I guess you never know.


Do you have any photos of the M1 Carbine in question? "Grinding off" the rear sight makes zero sense to me since the original M1 Carbine "flip sight", as well as both of the later adjustable sight variations, were dovetailed into the receiver. Without photographic evidence of the degree of damage (if any), it is difficult to determine the value. Of course, over these many years, I have seen folks do some outrageous things to otherwise innocent firearms.
 
Posts: 2512 | Location: Western PA | Registered: July 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unknown
Stuntman
Picture of bionic218
posted Hide Post
quote:
Do you have any photos of the M1 Carbine in question?


I do not have photos. But, essentially, the built up area on top of the receiver that would have normally had a dovetail cut for the rear sight had been ground down and then filed, so that a side mounted Williams peep sight could be installed. I can only guess that either the original rear sight was lost and this was a cheaper fix, but wouldn't clear the receiver, or that the dovetail itself was somehow damaged and this was the only answer within a reasonable cost. Otherwise I've got no clue.

It was well done, and if the Williams was parkerized instead of black, an uninformed buyer may not have noticed that it wasn't an original part. But anyone familiar with military surplus rifles would spot it a mile away.

The break-down is this: the damage done to the receiver destroys the value of the rifle. I agree. No argument. Not only from an aesthetic point of view, but also to the historical correctness of the rifle and its parts. Again, I agree.

The gun store's opinion is this: Yeah, you're right. But, if somebody wants a real deal Winchester M1 Carbine that shoots good, and if the Williams sight works well, and if a buyer wants one to shoot - not to ooh and ahh over locked away in a safe; where do you find a reliable M1 carbine for that kind of money?

Same store had an AO (Kahr) repro, used, priced at $695. That said, for roughly the same money, for shooting - not collecting - do you buy a used repro at the same price you could buy a correct original with an altered rear sight?

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but I'm just saying that "$700 is way too high" might be a bit of an exaggeration in the current market. I understand that's a lot more than people have paid for very good unmolested versions in the past. I get it. But that's like comparing the 91/30s I bought for $109 ten years ago to today's prices. Or the '53 Tula Russian SKS that my father in law bought from a barrel in a pawn shop in the early 80s for $79. It really doesn't matter what was done to the carbine, because it can't be undone. It doesn't matter what it would have been worth, or what it could have been bought for back in '02 or whenever. All that matters is, what is it worth now?

A figure of $350 has been put forth. Okay, let's ignore the nostalgia and historical stuff for a minute. Find me a lightweight handy little .30 cal semi-auto carbine on the market today that compares favorably. Mini 30s? How's high $600-mid $700 sound? SKS? If we could pretend for a moment they were either light or handy, Yugos at $300+? Chinese around $400? Russians up from there? AKs mabybe? With WASR's going off at $600 and Aresenals bringing $1200 - no thanks.

The only thing that's even close in value per dollar is building a 300 BO AR, and even that will run you $450 or better to have one half-way decent.

Not saying this is the only answer, or even the best answer, but what else is there?
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: missouri | Registered: October 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
sick puppy
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Over on the CMP forum, shooter Carbines, even Blue Sky imports are aelling for 800+. Most of their stuff over a grand is “correct” or collectible, but gun broker and the like all have even higher inflated prices because “history!! World war 2!!!!” Hype.

I might be tempted, depending on what it looks like and how impulsive i was feeling, to buy it as a shooter. But I think, since you hesitated, it might bug you to buy it. If you had right away bought it thinking - eh, its just to shoot, the history is/was there, but its a good shooter so thats a plus, then great. But since you’re debating between the two, hold out for one youd like more, toss up a few WTB ads around on the forums, and see what bites?

Yes, the days of cheaper M1 carbines are gone, the CMP is out, and repros are even gaining in price. But you still need to be happy with your purchase.



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Posts: 7200 | Location: Alpine, Ut | Registered: February 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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quote:
The gun store's opinion is this: Yeah, you're right. But, if somebody wants a real deal Winchester M1 Carbine that shoots good, and if the Williams sight works well, and if a buyer wants one to shoot - not to ooh and ahh over locked away in a safe; where do you find a reliable M1 carbine for that kind of money?

Same store had an AO (Kahr) repro, used, priced at $695. That said, for roughly the same money, for shooting - not collecting - do you buy a used repro at the same price you could buy a correct original with an altered rear sight?


Thos two paragraphs are why I voted the way I did. I don't collect and I'm not up on current prices. However, if I was in the market for a reliable M1 carbine to shoot or for "ban-state" home defense, I'd take the Winchester over the used Kahr for the same money any day.




“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik

The world's a dangerous place, we can help! http://portlandfirearmtraining.com/
 
Posts: 4167 | Location: Oregon | Registered: October 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
War Damn Eagle!
Picture of Snake207
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For that price - pass. Maybe half price or around there, but $700 for a Bubba's rifle - nope.

I'd add a little more to it and get the unaltered, real deal.
(Plus, as I understand it, the repos have reliability issues.)


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Posts: 11866 | Location: Realville | Registered: June 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Page late and a dollar short
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If it came down to a case between the Kahr for 695 or the Winchester for 700 and I had to choose one or the other I'd take the Winchester hands down.

My one Kahr experience was enough. Never again.


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Posts: 5663 | Location: Livingston County Michigan USA | Registered: August 11, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
To all of you who are serving or have served our country, Thank You
Picture of Jelly
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If you just want it as a shooter go for it. Life is short enjoy it! Whats a few extra bucks here and there going to hurt in the end. The real M1 will most likely function better than any of the aftermarket M1 carbines ever made from what I have seen. M1 carbines are just fun to shoot. I have not seen a real M1 carbine around here for less than $950 in the last 10 years. The one for $950 was beat up bad.


....Shredding lead both barrels
 
Posts: 1820 | Registered: March 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Besides the ruined receiver, we don't know how much wear it's had. The bore could look o.k., but still be well worn. A number of other things could be wrong as well. I had several M1 carbines in my collection, but they haven't been ruined by Bubba. Personally I'd rather put $400 or so in one of the cheaper AR's. At least you'd know it was new and not worn out.
 
Posts: 651 | Location: WV | Registered: May 30, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of arcwelder76
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If you're that desperate to spend less than $700 on a USGI M1 Carbine, you need to invest in a time machine, to go back and give yourself a time machine so you don't have to invest in a time machine, to then go back and get a "cheap" USGI carbine.

There are lots of periods in guns that we all wish we were present during. Try building an FAL. Or even a USGI M14.

Here is the thing.

The golden age of deals is long gone, because of the internet. Add to that the increase in value due to rarity, and inflation.

Dude.

Almost any weapon with the rear sight ground off is shit.

You missed the boat on $700. Deal with it.


Arc.
______________________________

"Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash

"I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman

Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM

"You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP

 
Posts: 25557 | Location: Love that dirty water, oh | Registered: June 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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