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Winchester 94 Accuracy Issues (BIG pictures added) Login/Join 
sick puppy
posted
I've had this old Winchester 94 for two or three years now, but have only taken it out three or four times, putting MAYBE 20 rounds total through it in that timeframe. Typically, it was brought along with some rounds, someone wanted to shoot a couple rounds through it just to experience the 30-30, and then it was put away.
That was, However, until the last time I took it out with my brother, we were at an indoor range, shooting it off a rest, and I was actually trying to hit stuff, and I couldn't land a hit at all. we only had 12" targets, but I put about another 20 rounds through it just that day, and could not figure it out. no sight adjustments or POA shifts helped figure out where I was hitting.

I bought it for $400, it came with 8 boxes of ammo, and it's a kludge - all of which was disclosed at the time of purchase.
-He knew the barrel was a replacement and not original to the receiver - I disassembled it and found that The barrel is date stamped 1954.
-The receiver's serial number comes back to the year 1900.
-The rear stock always looked new, with a few bumps, while the front handguard looks older.
-I did replace the tube spring.
-The receiver is drilled and tapped for scope mounts, and a peep sight, but has screws filling those holes.
-The rear sight is a buckhorn sight with the cup type thing for elevation (like this: https://www.brownells.com/user...ts/p_579063001_1.jpg)
-and the front sight is a short dovetail marked Lyman without the hood over it.

In thinking about its accuracy issues, I looked more closely at the stock and it seems as though it might have been through an attempt at "fitting" it to this receiver, which made it loose. if I grab the receiver, and wiggle the butt end around, there is some play up and down but none side to side.

I'm considering ordering a new stock specific to the EARLY receiver I have ($85-ish here ) and/or new sights ($30-ish like these perhaps).

Are there any other things I should be looking at to help try to figure out and fix the accuracy issues in this little old rifle?

Thanks!

stock fitment photos:

This message has been edited. Last edited by: PorterN,



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Posts: 7337 | Location: Alpine, Ut | Registered: February 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What length indoor range?

If it wouldn't hit a 12"x12" piece of paper at 25 yards the problem isn't a loose buttstock.
 
Posts: 4806 | Location: TX | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
sick puppy
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quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
What length indoor range?

If it wouldn't hit a 12"x12" piece of paper at 25 yards the problem isn't a loose buttstock.


yep. 25 yards.



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While you may be able to get away with bottom shelf whiskey, stay the hell away from bottom shelf tequila. - FishOn
 
Posts: 7337 | Location: Alpine, Ut | Registered: February 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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How does the bore look? How about the crown? When you had the barrel off, did you look at the chamber?
 
Posts: 4806 | Location: TX | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bolt Thrower
Picture of Voshterkoff
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Is it actually .30-30?
 
Posts: 8527 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
Picture of benny6
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The barrel is 65 years old. Was it a new barrel made in 1954, or a used barrel made in 1954? Have you done a super clean on it?

I recommend using a series of Bore-tech cleanings using their eliminator, copper remover and carbon remover. Maybe even a lead remover if they have one. In 65 years, there's no telling how much copper, carbon and lead layers there are caked in that barrel.

I also recommend inspecting the crown and having it re-crowned if it is dinged up.

Post a pic of the whole rifle, please.

Tony.


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Posts: 3406 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Constable
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Sure it's NOT a .32 Winchester?
 
Posts: 6493 | Location: Craig, MT | Registered: December 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
To all of you who are serving or have served our country, Thank You
Picture of Jelly
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quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
What length indoor range?

If it wouldn't hit a 12"x12" piece of paper at 25 yards the problem isn't a loose buttstock.


I agree.

If someone took a used barrel off a 1954 94 it most likely had issues before it got to your rifle.

I would check and see there is lead build up from someone using cast bullets. Than the barrel should be check for bore and groove diameter.


....Shredding lead both barrels
 
Posts: 1959 | Registered: March 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
sick puppy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
How does the bore look? How about the crown? When you had the barrel off, did you look at the chamber?


The bore looks pretty darn good, to me. I've seen a completely shot-out bore of a different rifle once, where the rifling was barely visible, with some pits and stuff. this one looks as good as most any of my other guns, I'd say.

I never did take the barrel off; I took the front handguard off and the magazine tube, where I could see the barrel date stamp on the underside of the barrel.

quote:
Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Is it actually .30-30?


Barrel is marked 30 W.C.F, yes. it's 30-30.

quote:
Originally posted by benny6:
The barrel is 65 years old. Was it a new barrel made in 1954, or a used barrel made in 1954? Have you done a super clean on it?


I also recommend inspecting the crown and having it re-crowned if it is dinged up.

Post a pic of the whole rifle, please.

Tony.


The crown looks pretty good as well. I'll never know if the barrel was new or used when it was installed on this rifle, when it was done, or who did it. I've never tried a super-clean, so I suppose that's where I start first.

I'll get some pictures of the whole rifle, as detailed as I can, here in a bit.

Thanks, all!



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While you may be able to get away with bottom shelf whiskey, stay the hell away from bottom shelf tequila. - FishOn
 
Posts: 7337 | Location: Alpine, Ut | Registered: February 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of maladat
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quote:
Originally posted by PorterN:
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
How does the bore look? How about the crown? When you had the barrel off, did you look at the chamber?


The bore looks pretty darn good, to me. I've seen a completely shot-out bore of a different rifle once, where the rifling was barely visible, with some pits and stuff. this one looks as good as most any of my other guns, I'd say.

I never did take the barrel off; I took the front handguard off and the magazine tube, where I could see the barrel date stamp on the underside of the barrel.


I gotcha, I misunderstood.

I'm sure you checked, but I don't see it mentioned - the sights are firmly attached with no wiggle?
 
Posts: 4806 | Location: TX | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Age Quod Agis
Picture of ArtieS
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Check the barrel bands, both on the handguard and on the barrel, at the front of the magazine tube.

I have a Marlin 336 and the screw that pinned the front handguard band on the rifle fractured. Bullets went all over the place. Replaced the screw, tightened it down, and it's plenty consistent enough for deer to 200 yards.



"We may consent to be governed, but we will not be ruled." - Kevin D. Williamson, 2012

"All the citizens of this land are of right freemen; they owe no allegiance to any class and should recognize no task-masters. Under the chart of their liberties, under the law of high heaven, they are free and without shackles on their limbs nor mortgages upon the fruits of their brain or muscles; they bow down before no prince, potentate, or sovereign, nor kiss the royal robes of any crowned head; they render homage only to their God and should pay tribute only to their Government. Such at least is the spirit of our institutions, the character of our written national compact."

Charles Triplett O’Ferrall of Virginia - In Congress, May 1, 1888
 
Posts: 10204 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: November 02, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
sick puppy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ArtieS:
Check the barrel bands, both on the handguard and on the barrel, at the front of the magazine tube.


I tried to take the handguard one off just now, and it looks like its stripped I could push it out like a pin. I'll have to order a new band and screw for that one at least. the top one seems solid still.

quote:
Originally posted by maladat:


I'm sure you checked, but I don't see it mentioned - the sights are firmly attached with no wiggle?


Yes. the sights seem solid.



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While you may be able to get away with bottom shelf whiskey, stay the hell away from bottom shelf tequila. - FishOn
 
Posts: 7337 | Location: Alpine, Ut | Registered: February 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The solutions mentioned by others are all correct. A variety of situations can cause accuracy problems with lever actions. But my first stop with the lever gun is always sights. I replace the factory buckhorns immediately with Williams receiver sights. This will cure accuracy problems pretty quick, at the cost of somewhat altering the "authentic" look of the gun.
Example: I have a 1906 Winchester 1894 standard sporting rifle in .32 WS. Since it is antique, I left the factory barrel mounted sights in place. And its front bead is... Ivory! Wink
Using the factory buckhorns, at 100 yards it will do a consistent 6 inch group. But, it also has a Lyman tang sight, possibly installed by Winchester at the factory. The tang sight will shrink the group to right around 3 inches. Pretty good for 116 years old.
My modern Marlin 30-30s with the Williams sights are better than I am. The ballistic angels once smiled upon me with a 1.25 inch 3 shot group at 100. I think the Williams sights are 35 bucks or so. Cheap accuracy fix!
And despite the barrel being marked 30 WCF, I cant help but wonder if it is actually .32 WS.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 9198 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
sick puppy
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While you may be able to get away with bottom shelf whiskey, stay the hell away from bottom shelf tequila. - FishOn
 
Posts: 7337 | Location: Alpine, Ut | Registered: February 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's not you,
it's me.
Picture of RAMIUS
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I have a pre 1964 Win94 that I use for deer hunting. I love it and it’s super accurate.

Sorry to hear about the issues, it really is a neat gun. I agree with what the others said. But also maybe try different ammo too?

Here’s a link where people are discussing accuracy issues:

https://pistol-forum.com/showt...er-94-30-30-accuracy




 
Posts: 5900 | Location: Philadelphia, Pa | Registered: September 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Age Quod Agis
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Honestly, I put a Romeo 3 red dot on my Marlin; I couldn't hit shit with the semi buckhorn rear and brass bead front.






"We may consent to be governed, but we will not be ruled." - Kevin D. Williamson, 2012

"All the citizens of this land are of right freemen; they owe no allegiance to any class and should recognize no task-masters. Under the chart of their liberties, under the law of high heaven, they are free and without shackles on their limbs nor mortgages upon the fruits of their brain or muscles; they bow down before no prince, potentate, or sovereign, nor kiss the royal robes of any crowned head; they render homage only to their God and should pay tribute only to their Government. Such at least is the spirit of our institutions, the character of our written national compact."

Charles Triplett O’Ferrall of Virginia - In Congress, May 1, 1888
 
Posts: 10204 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: November 02, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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My recommendation is to first get on paper. If that requires using a sheet of butcher paper (or something equivalent) at 10 feet, that’s what you need to do. Possibilities are that your sights are grossly misaligned with the barrel or that there’s something wrong with the barrel itself. The possible misalignment will be determined by using a large target at close distance. A barrel problem will be revealed by what sort of group you get once you’re on paper. If you’re on paper but the bullets are “keyholing” or the “group” is very large at a short distance, at least you’ll know what the fundamental reason is.

Not having any idea where you’re hitting—or more accurately, missing—will make any further progress impossible, and other efforts will be nothing more than wastes of time and ammunition.




“One of the great ironies of our age is that we have somehow managed to become far more sanctimonious than previous generations—and yet far more immoral by traditional standards as well. We can obsess over an unartful presidential comment, but snore through the systematic destruction of the manufacturing basis of an entire state or ignore warlike violence on the streets of Chicago.”
— Victor Davis Hanson, The Case for Trump 274
 
Posts: 40313 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Your photo that shows the rear sight looks like the elevator is off center to the bore. Bent, possibly or not seating on the sight blade properly.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 9198 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Avoiding
slam fires
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Seen a lot of them and have owned sever levers,but never saw one with a carter key in front sight.
Second the stock can be glass bedded,upper hand guard can be re leaved as to not squeeze the barrel on one side or the other,helps on follow up shots.
How is the spent brass compared to new?
32 ammo will not fit in 30 30.
The crown needs touching up and I suspect you should run by a good smith .
A steel yard stick will help to determine if the barrel is cantered in receiver when they exchanged barrel.
 
Posts: 21972 | Location: Georgia | Registered: February 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"Member"
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quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Your photo that shows the rear sight looks like the elevator is off center to the bore.



And how. I'd center it and try again. Or try a bigger target and aiming to the side of it.


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