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The most extreme case of vertical stringing you’ve ever seen? **UPDATE** Login/Join 
Only dead fish
go with the flow
Picture of pessimist
posted
Well, I guess a bad day at the range is better than a good day at work.

I headed to the range this morning and one of the rifles I brought was my Remington 742 (30-06 semi). This was my first rifle; Dad gave it to me when I began hunting. I hadn’t shot this rifle in about 15 years. I used good quality factory ammo, albeit very old ammo that was provided with the gun.

I loaded 4 rounds in the magazine and fired while seated at a bench with the rifle resting on a bag. Distance to the target was 100 yards. Here’s the result:




What the hell is going on here? I’m really hoping that this could be a scope issue. When I looked through the scope this morning, the reticle was clearly not right. It appears to have been damaged. One of the lines is slightly crooked. I don’t recall it being damaged but something is clearly wrong with it. However, I’m not sure a damaged scope could account for this.

I guess the first course of action would be to try another scope. Any other thoughts on what could cause this?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: pessimist,
 
Posts: 1517 | Registered: March 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
If the reticle is moving in the sight, that could cause it. What sight is it?

Extreme velocity variations could also cause such vertical stringing, but it seems unlikely that even old ammunition would exhibit that much.

And of course poor shooting technique could also be at fault, but that’s even more unlikely for an experienced shooter.

If you can see an obvious problem with the scopesight reticle, that would be a clue that the first explanation is the correct one.

But to answer your question: No, that’s not the worst I’ve ever seen. I got 18 inches at 100 yards with some subsonic 308 Winchester ammunition I fired a couple of years ago. That was evidently due to velocity variations.




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 42286 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
posted Hide Post
I'm far from a rifle expert. I'm trying to learn. That grouping is almost perfectly aligned vertically. Wouldn't a scope problem cause more scattered or random impacts?
 
Posts: 23917 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by egregore:
Wouldn't a scope problem cause more scattered or random impacts?


I am no expert, but if only the elevation adjustment mechanism failed, I believe that’s the sort of vertical stringing that might occur.

I would, however, be interested in any differing opinions.




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 42286 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
posted Hide Post
That is plausible. I was thinking more of a broken reticle moving around "willy-nilly" inside the tube.
 
Posts: 23917 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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What is the scope in use?
 
Posts: 3141 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Did you try shooting
with just iron sites? That should identify if the culprit is the scope or rifle.
 
Posts: 1248 | Location: USA | Registered: December 11, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lost
Picture of kkina
posted Hide Post
Which reticle line was crooked?



ACCU-STRUT FOR MINI-14
"Pen & Sword as One"
 
Posts: 13637 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Non-Miscreant
posted Hide Post
You do have multiple problems possible. Time to go back to the range. Stop at WallyWorld on your way and buy a brand new box of ammo. Use nothing old, even if its probably not the problem. The idea is to change ammo.

So go set out your brand new targets. Take along a snack or soft drink, this will take a little time. Load up the rifle as always. Fire a shot through a cold barrel. Put the rifle down an open the pop. Take a drink, but don't touch the rifle. Leave it sit until cold and dead. Then at maybe the 5 minute mark, fire a second round. If no one is around, walk out to your target and look. Walk back and take another drink. At the 10 minute mark again fire trough a cold barrel. Repeat a couple more times. What you're doing is trying to kill 2 birds with the same stone. If its lousy ammo before, the brand new ammo will show you. If its a barrel or stock problem with a warm barrel, this will show it up, too.

Got a buddy with a spare scope lying around? See if you can borrow it for a day. Try it on the gun and see what happens. Know an expert or good shooter? Borrow him for an hour or two. Its usually not hard to narrow down these problems. Just a process of elimination.


Unhappy ammo seeker
 
Posts: 17234 | Location: Kentucky, USA | Registered: February 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of sourdough44
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Are there any goals, like hunting ir just casual shooting?

You said the scope looks suspect? Great place to start, change it out, check rings & bases for tightness.

If I have an issue that needs to be ironed out, I like to drop back to 50 or so yards. It’s easier to get a handle on things at that range.

I helped a wheelchair bound neighbor setup a new to him deer rifle earlier this Fall. I did a few shots to verify, then attached the gun to his chair device, which included a barrel clamp. Normally attaching to the barrel itself would be a big no-no, totally change ‘harmonics’. That’s what happened here, we re-adjusted the point of impact. Just checking the rest of your shooting protocol is normal, which I suspect it is.

The iron sight check is an idea, 50 yards or even less. I doubt it was ammo alone with that lead to the ‘vertical stringing’.
 
Posts: 4270 | Location: WI | Registered: February 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"Member"
Picture of cas
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My thought is did it string like this years ago? But since you still have that original ammo, I'm thinking you didn't shoot it enough to find out? Smile

Could be bedding issues...

My father's favorite hunting rifle shoots about like that if you let it. But since it's only use for hunting, it's never been an issue. The first shot is fine, the second is close, third.. okay of it's not too far. Big Grin


_____________________________________________________
Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911.

 
Posts: 17885 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
We gonna get some
oojima in this house!
Picture of smithnsig
posted Hide Post
Optic.


-----------------------------------------------------------
TCB all the time...
 
Posts: 6488 | Location: Cantonment/Perdido Key, Florida | Registered: September 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
fugitive from reality
Picture of SgtGold
posted Hide Post
My first guess is optics. The 742 is supposed to have a floating barrel. If it's touching something as it warms that could throw your shots. In for the answer.


_____________________________
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Posts: 6669 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Avoiding
slam fires
Picture of 45 Cal
posted Hide Post
Scope done took a crap,when cross hairs twist they have slipped off the pivot pins.
Common problem with air guns and cross bows and cheaper scopes as well as auto rifles
Never heard of remington 7400,742 having a floating barrel.
 
Posts: 22145 | Location: Georgia | Registered: February 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Only dead fish
go with the flow
Picture of pessimist
posted Hide Post
The scope is a Bausch & Lomb Balfor B. It's a fixed 4X.

I looked at it again this morning and it's definitely toast. When I give it a sharp rap or two with my knuckle, the vertical reticle shifts position slightly. It seems strange but it appears that the top half moves. The bottom half seems to remain perpendicular. I can't detect any change in the horizontal line. In any event, it's finished so in the garbage it goes.

Now I need two new scopes (I recently pulled my 30-30 out of mothballs and the adjustment knobs were frozen solid). Seems like half of everything I own is breaking at the same time? Big Grin

I gave up hunting a long time ago so these rifles rarely get used. I'll probably put a box of rounds through them every couple of years, if that. As such, I don't really need the highest quality optics. Any recommendations on a decent quality scope that's a good value?

Thanks all!
 
Posts: 1517 | Registered: March 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
You need to compensate for the reduced weight in the magazine after a round has been fired, rookie mistake Wink


I suspect scope issue as well.
 
Posts: 2581 | Location: The Low Country | Registered: October 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by pessimist:
The scope is a Bausch & Lomb Balfor B. It's a fixed 4X.

I looked at it again this morning and it's definitely toast. When I give it a sharp rap or two with my knuckle, the vertical reticle shifts position slightly. It seems strange but it appears that the top half moves. The bottom half seems to remain perpendicular. I can't detect any change in the horizontal line. In any event, it's finished so in the garbage it goes.

Now I need two new scopes (I recently pulled my 30-30 out of mothballs and the adjustment knobs were frozen solid). Seems like half of everything I own is breaking at the same time? Big Grin

I gave up hunting a long time ago so these rifles rarely get used. I'll probably put a box of rounds through them every couple of years, if that. As such, I don't really need the highest quality optics. Any recommendations on a decent quality scope that's a good value?

Thanks all!


I know of the Bausch & Lomb Balfour 4X30. (Bal was for "Bausch And Lomb and the four, was for 4X.) This is early 1960s optics technology. The B model was released in late 1960s. They sold all this to Bushnell in the 1970s. Because this was prior to any coating technology for the lenses, the number of lens elements in a riflescope made a visible difference in light transmission through the scope. The reticle was actually made up of wires instead of being etched in glass as most reticles are these days. So, yes, the wires would break or otherwise loosen up and the scope was toast.

This was a good scope for those days, almost 60 years ago.
 
Posts: 3141 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by pessimist:
Any recommendations on a decent quality scope that's a good value?


I like used Leupold scopes. Leupold quality + Leupold's outstanding lifetime warranty, for usually the same price or not much more than a new "budget" scope. (Especially since, if you know what you're doing, you can often find good deals on older hunting rifles with scopes on them, scavenge the scope, and then sell the bare rifle for not all that much less than you paid.)

Plus, vintage rifles just look funny when paired with modern scopes. Big Grin
 
Posts: 25372 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
Sounds like you found the problem in the scope. That was my prime suspect, since you said the reticle seemed broken.

Really bad ammo could do that, but ammo doesn't go bad because it is old. It would be poorly loaded ammo that would cause that.

Bedding problems are where you would look if you didn't suspect the sights.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 48951 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
We gonna get some
oojima in this house!
Picture of smithnsig
posted Hide Post
I had an old 4x-32 fixed power, actually still have it. It did the same thing horizontally. Elevation variance was about 1 minute, horizontal was about 10 minutes. It wasn’t readily noticeable but changing the optic fixed it up.

As for a replacement, I would look at the Leupold 2-7 VXR.


-----------------------------------------------------------
TCB all the time...
 
Posts: 6488 | Location: Cantonment/Perdido Key, Florida | Registered: September 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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