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Hi, I've got a Tikka T3 tactical in 223. It is an accurate little bugger , but I haven't really fallen in love with it.

I recently acquired a Rock River AR 15 ( 1 MOA guarantee) with the idea of replacing my Tikka with it. Just got done sighting it in and am getting ~ 2-3 MOA groups ( Fioche 55 gr FMJ and Fioche 69 gr. match ammo).

I'm a little disappointed with the accuracy of the Rock River... I was hoping for something closer to the 1 MOA. Am I expecting too much ?? Suggestions would be much appreciated.

I'm in a quandary about how to proceed...mike
 
Posts: 672 | Location: Idaho | Registered: October 21, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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2-3 MOA is about normal for a mil-spec AR. If you want 1 MOA from an AR, you need to get one with features designed to improve accuracy, like heavy free floating barrels.
 
Posts: 1612 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What's the twist rate on the barrel?
Personally I've had best luck on an AR with 77grain match ammo.

All else being equal.. bolt guns will always be more accurate than an AR.
Sure you can spend a shitload of money and get a match grade AR..
But then you can also spend a shitload of money and get a better match grade bolt gun.


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Posts: 659 | Location: Cary, NC | Registered: June 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Dwill104:
2-3 MOA is about normal for a mil-spec AR. If you want 1 MOA from an AR, you need to get one with features designed to improve accuracy, like heavy free floating barrels.


Well, he did say it has a 1MOA guarantee.


OP - in order to get good results, you need to use good ammo. What is the twist rate of the barrel? I would try some fgmm or black hills 69 or similar.

Also, and not to pick on you, but the most accurate rifle can still produce poor results when driven by a poor shooter. Have you had other people try it who you know can shoot?


Lastly, if your goal is accuracy, replacing a bolt gun with a gas gun is not the way to do it. If you don't like the Tikka, sell it and get a different bolt gun.




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15652 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for the input ! I appreciate it.

The twist is 1:9

It sounds like those long bullets will fit through an AR ?? Will they stabilize a 77 grain bullet ( 1:9)

I don't expect the AR to be as accurate as my bolt but I'd just like to be able to get somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 MOA...

The comments about my shooting ability are fair ( no ego about this)....but I am able to pretty easily get 1 MOA with my Tikka with just about any ammo that I feed it.

Please keep the comments and suggestions coming !! Thanks, mike
 
Posts: 672 | Location: Idaho | Registered: October 21, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If it's "guranteed" 1 MOA amd your getting 2-3, maybe call customer service and call them out on their gurantee. Maybe they need to replace your barrel with a new one that satisfies the gurantee?


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Posts: 28 | Location: Hanover, PA | Registered: June 10, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by mike28w:
Thanks for the input ! I appreciate it.

The twist is 1:9

It sounds like those long bullets will fit through an AR ?? Will they stabilize a 77 grain bullet ( 1:9)

I don't expect the AR to be as accurate as my bolt but I'd just like to be able to get somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 MOA...

The comments about my shooting ability are fair ( no ego about this)....but I am able to pretty easily get 1 MOA with my Tikka with just about any ammo that I feed it.

Please keep the comments and suggestions coming !! Thanks, mike


Putting up tight groups with a bolt gun, for me, is far easier than putting up tight groups with a gas gun. With my bolt guns, reliably they do 1/2-3/4 minute. My gas gun? I have a nice one - single stage trigger, Lilja barrel.. I still struggle to stay around 1 MOA with it. It's just a completely different animal, and one I admittedly don't practice much with. I figure if I'm minute of man with it at 100 yards-ish, I'm good. Anything farther than that and I want my bolt gun for anything real.

A 1:9 will stabilize a 69gr matchking. According to Sierra's site, a 77gr matchkind requires a twist rate of 1:8 or faster. Not sure which 77gr bullet you're asking about, so if it's not Sierra, you can check the manufacturer's site and they'll tell you what's necessary.

Or you can google bullet stabilization (I think it's on Litz's page? Or Berger's? Maybe JBM? I forget, but I know there's one out there.). You'll need things like twist rate, velocity, temperature, projectile length, projectile weight, etc.

As for if they'll FIT "through an AR", the answer is always yes. The problem lies in the question "will they fit in the magazine?".

I'd start by getting some 69gr FGMM or Black Hills match and asking a few other guys to try it before you go all gung-ho on the "it needs a new barrel!".

IMO, accuracy guarantees are ridiculous. It's like selling a bowling ball and guaranteeing 250 points per game. Doesn't matter how good the bowling ball is, if I suck, there's no way I'm getting 250 points per game with it.




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15652 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm curious which RRA the OP has. Looking at RRA's webpage, they list accuracy as 1 MOA at 100 yards for most of their 5.56 ARs regardless of what barrel it has. For example, their basic M4 clone with, normal non-free floating Carbine handguards, a standard A2 FSB, and a normal government profile barrel is listed as being 1 MOA, which seems unlikely, unless RRA makes magic guns.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/i...play&category_id=217

Also, if the only place where 1 MOA is mentioned is on a the web page like above, I'd be curious if that's really a "guarantee" that is enforceable. If so, it should be sent back because it's not meeting it's guaranteed accuracy.
 
Posts: 1612 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would try different 68/69gr. BTHP match bullets. Also a good performer for me has been Hornady American Gunner 55gr. HP match.

With a 1X9" twist barrel, the 75/77gr. BTHP match bullets class may or may not stabilize in that twist rate.

I know that Rock River Arms National Match Service Rifle is capable of very good accuracy. Mine would do 1" groups with my match handloads.

As for the standard rifles, I couldn't see a 1 MOA rifle, but a good constant 3 MOA gun.

ARman
 
Posts: 1733 | Registered: May 19, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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with a 1:9 I'd use GMM 69g and see what the results are. That's really the benchmark.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 6362 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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An AR with quality components assembled properly and good ammo should be capable of 1 MOA, or very close. However you will need everything going for you. A sturdy bench, a good bipod and rear bag, a quality optic with reasonable magnification and a very low wind day.

Start with an impeccably clean dry barrel and take one or two fouling shots. Then, employ all of the best bench shooting techniques and allow ample time between shots to allow the barrel to cool.

I've had good luck with Fusion 62 gr Spitzer Boat tail ammo and Gold Dot 55 and 64 gr. Soft Points. I'm sure there are other even better ammo selections available for your 1-9 barrel



Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves.

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Posts: 8907 | Location: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: February 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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