|You have cow?|
I lift cow!
Don't regret mine. 3500 is insane but they are out there for 2800ish if you watch.
I actually didn't mind the original trigger, I found I could stage it and shot a few moa groups with it. That said the Super Scar is unbelievable, and I'd plan on getting one if I'm you.
That one you would have to back up with real data. And in this class of rifle a difference that is meaningful for the intended uses. But in any case the point of the AR10 crowd is that you can get something functionally similar for way,way less money. The Larue isn't in that crowd, its the same or more money as the SCAR and IMO less functional at that.
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
|Go ahead punk, make my day|
I mean if you just want a semi-auto battle rifle to spit out 308 brass and ring steel out to 400m a couple 3 times a year, the S&W MP10, Aero M5E1, POF, DPMS and other budget options are out there for around $1300. Heck I think PSA 308 can be had for $1K.
In the $2500+/- 500 crowd you get the LMT MWS, FN SCAR 17, Daniel Defense DD5, Various LaRue offerings, GAP-10, and others. Some lean more precision rifle that others. Move up to $4k and you get an SR25 and other custom semis.
Lets face it, none of those rifles are cheap, nor do they get cheaper when you throw $800-3000+ of mounts and optics on them either. Most decked out rifles will be $3000-7500 all said and done (triggers, optics & mounts, suppressor mounts, suppressors, etc, etc, etc).
But what is the point of getting a quality semi-308 if you are going to cheap out after buying it???
Including my extra mags and depending on the topic (NF 2.5-10x24 or M4S Aimpoint), I'm into my SCAR 17 for $6K, give or take. That doesn't count spare parts I have for it and the 16 either.
Doesn't a shoulder adapter pretty much solve any issues with mounting? I'm not aware of any other issues, but I'd certainly like to know if there are.
|Go ahead punk, make my day|
Problems suppressing? Yeah, I've never heard of any really.
Install the mount, test fire and replace GCS to get the proper gas flow setting for your suppressor / ammo.
Takes maybe an hour going slow through a couple iterations of ammo type and test firing suppressed and not, checking function / lock back, etc.
The one weapon I will not part with.
OP -- if you want a Scar 17, its cost isn't an issue, and its design parameters meet your desires -- then go for it.
I've shot a LaRue OBR and a Scar 17 against my own rifles. But I haven't shot the Scar and OBR side-by-side.
For me, comparisons occurred at Rifles Only courses. In Texas for the LaRue, in Colorado for the Scar. Both were shot against my 6.5 Creedmoor GA Precision Crusader and my 18" barrel 5.56 Wilson Combat Recon Tactical. For precision/tactical competition, holding Point of Impact (POI) vertical variation at distance is the key to evaluating a rifle's accuracy. Windage POI variation is luck of the draw with wind and one's ability to call it.
The OBR holds vertical quite well, especially for a semi auto. Even when the barrel is really quite hot. I don't know how many rounds were run through that student's OBR one afternoon, but I know it was more than a case of FGGM (i.e. at least 200 rounds). The OBR held vertical well enough in south Texas' 10-20 mph winds to ding 1 MOA targets (round hanging steel) out to 500 yards with a relatively high percentage -- for the accomplished shooters. The OBR held its own on 2 MOA targets at 600-750 yards. By 800 yards, winds contributed to both vertical and horizontal variation that made the targets tough to hit.
In calm conditions (rare in Kingsville, TX), my Wilson held vertical equal to the OBR out to maybe 500 yards. Beyond that, the OBR was better. Windy conditions gave a noticeable advantage to the OBR, due to its better bullets -- 175 grain vs. 75 grain.
By 400 yards, the OBR really began to show its accuracy was lagging against a GAP bolt action on 1 MOA targets. The bolt action's superior accuracy only grew with distance.
Now on to Colorado. The Scar 17's accuracy lagged behind my Wilson at all distances -- 100 yard paper targets, 1 MOA steel out to 400 yards, larger steel targets out to 750 yards. The Scar's accuracy was noticeably less than that of a KAC SR-25 and a GAP-10 in that course. The Scar was not even close in accuracy when compared to my GAP Crusader, but this really isn't a fair comparison.
And another thing -- the Scar's relatively thin profile barrel (as compared to AR-10s designed for precision shooting), shows increasing vertical POI variation as it gets hot. That's just part of the trade offs of lighter and heavier barrels. And rifles.
Don't believe me? Take a precision course with Rifles Only, and spend some time shooting the breeze with Jacob Bynum -- who owns Rifles Only. Few people have handled, shot, and observed others shooting so many types of rifles.
But for most people and most applications, the Scar 17 has plenty of accuracy. And let's not forget that most shooters don't possess the fundamentals of marksmanship to exploit the OBR's greater accuracy. Therefore, the average shooter's average groups may be statistically the same size for both a Scar and an OBR.
My experience, ownership, and views are the same....
|Middle children |
I have suppressors on all 3 of my SCARs and it's the easiest to suppress semi-auto platform that I have found. If by chance adding a can results in your SCAR being overgassed it's incredibly simple and straight forward to swap out to a smaller gas control screw. You can get any size GCS you want for $6 each at MGW.
It doesn't take much research to see the challenges with trying to suppress a direct impingement rifle that wasn't originally designed for it. How much does it cost to fix a DI rifle that has too large of a barrel gas port? A lot more than $6.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
|Go ahead punk, make my day|
Yeah, I don’t give that guy Frank Plumb much credit - he’s changed his handle about 3 times on the internet and Shilled for Handle since, forever.
Everyone on FN Forum (weird place, yes) seems to have very little difficulty suppressing their SCARs.
My 17 has at least 1500rds suppressed with an AAC-SDN6, and my 16 a similar amount as well with the same suppressor.
Looks like I am not getting in to the scar game for now. My order got cancelled, they didn’t have it in stock and there is no way 3500.00 is happening I can get an nice yugo(car)for that.
Nothing in that write-up is SCAR specific, other than the fact that you can crack the carrier from slamming the bolt about from over-gassing, along with the hinge plate. That's about the only real information in there. Other than a decent look at two cans (when we have dozens to choose from).
I'm an engineer working with thermodynamics and fluids, and I handle our technical documentation. A good chunk of that is fluff and trying to sound knowledgeable. He glosses over some increasingly significant datapoints that are above the high school science level. He changes the barrel length he's discussing at random, never establishing exactly what's test data and what's anecdotes from other periods in his experience. He also makes contradictory statements such as "hot gas is being pushed backwards into the gun" which highlight his lack of complete understanding of expanding gas behavior in a closed space.
He's also using an OSS suppressor hand built specifically for him to shoot on his SCAR with a specific load, not a current retail offering as far as I can tell.
No mention of orifice size as it relates to pressure. No mention of barrel and/or suppressor volume after the gas port. No mention of dwell time characteristics as it relates to projectile time in the barrel after the gas port. Y'know, all the stuff that would be usable to the readers to evaluate their own setup and compare it to "proven" designs.
So, in summary, that's all pretty much useless.
Fun read though, thanks.
|Go ahead punk, make my day|
Not to mention Handle was all in on making a metal hinge plate to replace the polymer one... except the SCAR is designed to have a polymer one and the metal ones have been known to start pulling the backplate out of the receiver - and undoubtedly impart more energy on the BCG.
Frank uses lots of big words and flaunts his SF background trying to sell Handle products, so there isn’t much of what he says that affects how I use my SCAR rifles.
Again, 3K suppressed through two SCAR SBRs using the same AAC suppressor. Only issues I have ever had was two broken feedlips on SCAR17 mags (bad batch, improperly heat treated) and the KDG stock (with metal hinge) caused by backplate to state pulling out. Ditched it, replaced the backplate (a screw stripped in the original, I’m sure I can drill it out though).
Neither are pampered or cleaned very often - I’ve gone so long that the gas regulators won’t turn due to carbon fouling. No stocks or lowers have broken.
I don’t say this to convince anyone to buy a SCAR - they aren’t for everyone and many are better served with a PSA AR15 and AP AR10 to sling lead downrange a couple times a year. Some want a precision AR10 and while shown to be accurate, the SCARs aren’t precision rifles.
Everything it trade offs.
I love mine and can confirm it works well with a can. Nothing hard about it, add mount and shoot. Mine is quite accurate and easily worth what I paid though I was about 1k under the 3500 kicked around here. I have some neat stuff but if things went pear shaped tomorrow I'd grab my 17 on the way out the door.
So if I didn't want to spend $3300 for a OBR PLUS the optic, what would you suggest as the best 3 AR10 platforms? Pricing would also be helpful...Thanks
Well I found one for from a local dealer who had one and it was 2900.00 can’t pick it up til he gets back from some gun shows he’s going to. So yeah
Congrats and way to stay patient !
We will need pics when it shows up !
damn it. he had already sold it on the internet before he "forgot".
Sounds like he might have had it on GB and got a higher bid ?
And he forgot ?
Hang on. What's this about? What are you guys talking about? To whom are you referring?
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