I recently acquired a Kahles k16i 1-6x24 Scope with the SI1 reticle for a great price. I seek guidance on what the right zero would if I mounted it on an AR-15 with a 16" barrel and using a American Eagle 223 55 gr ammo (AE223)? I would like to understand what the best zero would be to take advantage of this particular reticle?

http://www.kahles.at/verwaltun...04193755K16i_SI1.pdf


<Edited to add link to image of reticle...when I try to embed the pdf as an image in our forum sight, the image is gigantic, hence just a url>

The first question that must always be asked in these discussions is What do you intend to shoot?

With that ammunition and a rifle like that, I usually recommend a 50 yard zero which will also be close to a 200 yard zero (or zero at 200 yards, and you’ll be close at 50 yards). That’s for general defensive-type purposes when it might be necessary to engage from very close to up to 300 yards or so. If, however, you would mainly be shooting at longer distances, then a longer distance zero might suit you better.

That’s a somewhat unusual reticle because most that have those sorts of graduations are (more or less) calibrated for specific ammunition and distances. With that one, however, you would develop your own ballistics table and apply it to the reticle. (That, BTW, is the type of reticle I prefer as compared with those calibrated for specific loads.) For example, after you’d decided on a zero (e.g., 200 yards), you would then determine how the various calibration marks (e.g., the tops of the two chevrons) correlate to holds and hits at different distances. Just as examples, the top of the first chevron might be used for 300 yards, the top of the second for 375 yards, and the other reticle marks for increasing distances, etc.

Again, though, you should first decide what you intend to use the rifle and scope for, and then the zero question can be better addressed.

Thanks sigfreund. Given the weight of the scope (16.9oz), the incredible edge to edge glass clarity, and seemingly true both eyes open 1x capability, I thought this would make a good scope to use on a light weight AR for use from CQB to 300 yrd distances, something I could take to a defensive rifle class and not have to worry about weight on day 3 when running and gunning. I get your point about creating my own tables based on loads I might use.

I guess the question would be, would this type of reticle be beneficial for a 100 yrd zero (55gr 223) so all distances (CQB to 100 and 145 300 yards) except 100-145 yards would be a hold over to keep it simple? I guess the question is (and shifting the thread a little) considering human factors, is a zero that keeps everything as a hold over with this reticle the most "ergonomic" zero?

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
The first question that must always be asked in these discussions is What do you intend to shoot?

With that ammunition and a rifle like that, I usually recommend a 50 yard zero which will also be close to a 200 yard zero (or zero at 200 yards, and you’ll be close at 50 yards). That’s for general defensive-type purposes when it might be necessary to engage from very close to up to 300 yards or so. If, however, you would mainly be shooting at longer distances, then a longer distance zero might suit you better.

That’s a somewhat unusual reticle because most that have those sorts of graduations are (more or less) calibrated for specific ammunition and distances. With that one, however, you would develop your own ballistics table and apply it to the reticle. (That, BTW, is the type of reticle I prefer as compared with those calibrated for specific loads.) For example, after you’d decided on a zero (e.g., 200 yards), you would then determine how the various calibration marks (e.g., the tops of the two chevrons) correlate to holds and hits at different distances. Just as examples, the top of the first chevron might be used for 300 yards, the top of the second for 375 yards, and the other reticle marks for increasing distances, etc.

Again, though, you should first decide what you intend to use the rifle and scope for, and then the zero question can be better addressed.

I had this scope before and zeroed at 50 yards....

Promptly, sold it and acquired a Swaro 1-8x24 with the BRT reticle. Definitely a better scope in terms of clarity, reticle, and use.

Now, I zero at 100 and use the stadia lines out to 600yds successfully with 55gr Hornady BTHP.

Just my $0.02

Andrew

I haven't used that scope but many modern LPV optics have the reticle designed with a 200 yard zero in mind.


$5 on strelok+ is worth every penny.


Plug in your scope and muzzle velocity and it gives you correct firing solutions. Either dialing or using the BDC.

The Kahles is an excellent optic.

You chose well. And this is coming from a Razor user who likes his Vortex but still appreciates other excellent glass.

quote:

Originally posted by carotxn:
is a zero that keeps everything as a hold over with this reticle the most "ergonomic" zero?

That’s ultimately your decision and preference. I fully realize, however, that it’s about impossible to know what you’re going to prefer until you have a chance to try it. Fortunately, however, all you must do to determine what’s best for you is to try different zeroes.

I personally zero my AR-type rifles at 50/~200 yards for 64 grain Gold Dot ammo and hold high or low as required. In fact, I put labels on my guns with quick reminders for close encounters. With that zero and an Aimpoint sight, for example, I hold ~2.4 inches high at 7 yards, ~1.7 high at 15, ~1.2 high at 25, dead on at 50, ~2.3 low at 100, less low at ranges from 100 to 200, and high again beyond 200. When I’m shooting at long distances I review my records in advance or make sure I have the appropriate trajectory table. And all that’s with either just a single red dot or on one semiprecision rifle, one version of Leupold’s Tactical Milling Reticle that shares some characteristics with the reticle you mention above.

Other than actually trying different zeroes and different target distances, it’s good to learn to use the JBM ballistics program. In running a couple of different zeroes for what we’re discussing here, there isn’t a huge difference in hold-offs between a 100 or 200 yard zero, and what you suggest might be good for you. For me, I just try to learn what I have to do at different distances or keep the data handy. If you’re trying for a precision shot, “hold high” isn’t going to be adequate by itself either.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

Strelok+ $5


If you know your muzzle velocity you can play with a thousand different zeros on paper and find the one that best fits your use.


I pulled up your reticle with my data. With a 200 yard zero, your first dot down will be on @380 yards. tip of the first triangle @503, next triangle tip at 598.

A little bit of no-mans land between 200 and 400 yards, so you will just have to bracket the target between your main dot and the first holdover dot and that will have you on @300.

Here you go, with a 200 yard zero:




The yellow circle represents a target at 300 yards and the correct hold for that distance.

Thanks for all the help and links to resources to expand my understanding!