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I’d like some help picking a new LPVO optic for 2 gun. Login/Join 
LIBERTATEM DEFENDIMUS
Picture of Belgian Blue
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quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
quote:
Originally posted by Belgian Blue:
That is one awesome optic! I wonder what type of mount a person would use with it. Probably a single ring type for an Aimpoint PRO maybe?


You do not want a single ring scope mount, the scope will move far to easily. You want a two ring mount. Currently, March branded mounts are made in San Marino by Audere.sm and they have one specifically designed for this scope.
You can see it here and they are being sent to dealers in the USA this month.

https://www.marchscopes.co.uk/...x24-shorty-unimount/


OK, that makes more sense. I saw the objective size and I was wondering. But man, what an optic! That would be a thing of beauty. I’m really liking what I see with March optics.
 
Posts: 5363 | Registered: October 18, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Belgian Blue:
OK, that makes more sense. I saw the objective size and I was wondering. But man, what an optic! That would be a thing of beauty. I’m really liking what I see with March optics.


Speaking of objective size, and that's probably what got your attention here; you are probably aware of the reason why LPVOs always have a 24mm or similar size objective.

That is due to the challenge of having a 1X-1.5X low end magnification. I don't want to get deeply technical on this one, that's optics. The downside is that at the high end, the amount of light coming in a 24mm objective does not provide for a large exit pupil at 10X. It is still very usable at 2.4mm.

This is why I am so impressed with the March 1.5-15X42. This little scope has a low end in the LPVO range but with a 42mm objective. This means it lets in a lot of light and the 15X top end magnification is well light. This objective lens group is a new design from March and it's very impressive. I will add more detail in the stickied thread as I get more information about it. I will compare it to a standard LPVO's light path.
 
Posts: 3224 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Citadel
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Belgian Blue:
quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
quote:
Originally posted by Belgian Blue:
That is one awesome optic! I wonder what type of mount a person would use with it. Probably a single ring type for an Aimpoint PRO maybe?


You do not want a single ring scope mount, the scope will move far to easily. You want a two ring mount. Currently, March branded mounts are made in San Marino by Audere.sm and they have one specifically designed for this scope.
You can see it here and they are being sent to dealers in the USA this month.

https://www.marchscopes.co.uk/...x24-shorty-unimount/


OK, that makes more sense. I saw the objective size and I was wondering. But man, what an optic! That would be a thing of beauty. I’m really liking what I see with March optics.



Ordered one.
 
Posts: 677 | Registered: February 20, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Citadel:
Ordered one.


As I have stated before, I have little to no experience with LPVOs, so when you get yours I will be very interested in your report on the device.
 
Posts: 3224 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Citadel
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quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
quote:
Originally posted by Citadel:
Ordered one.


As I have stated before, I have little to no experience with LPVOs, so when you get yours I will be very interested in your report on the device.



It’s a twofer, Going on a 516 unfired. Will do a shots fired for zero and overall impression.
 
Posts: 677 | Registered: February 20, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Riley:
I do appreciate it! Just a little humor as I know full well the consequences of asking for recommendations here. Hehe.


I'll go a different direction and ask why you think you need more than 5x for targets 300M and under.

5x 'should' be enough. Other changes might make getting those hits 'easier' with no change in optics.

------------------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 8408 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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300 and under was fine, even the 8” at 100 wasn’t bad but after 300 more would be nice.

Also, some sort of ranging reticle is probably the bigger thing.

The rifle will probably get a better barrel once I can get some better ammo.




Looking for an Alaskan Malamute? Look here: http://www.moonsongmals.org
Do not send me to a heaven where there are no dogs.
Step Up or Stand Aside: Support the Troops !
 
Posts: 7784 | Location: West | Registered: November 26, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Sig209:
quote:
Originally posted by Riley:
I do appreciate it!

I'll go a different direction and ask why you think you need more than 5x for targets 300M and under.

5x 'should' be enough. Other changes might make getting those hits 'easier' with no change in optics.

The OP should describe the size & type of targets at 300 yards. Including the shooting positions, time constraints, and other pertinent information.

I compete in a 2-rifle match which has numerous carbine targets in the 300 yard ballpark. In the first years of the match, sometimes the targets were full-sized white-painted IPSC 3/8" thick steel. Iron sights worked for hits, but the shooters sometimes couldn't where on the plates. 1-6x optics worked really well here, and most shooters had good idea where hits landed, so that they could make necessary windage corrections for the other targets on that stage.

As the 2-rifle match evolved, full-sized IPSC targets moved back to 400 yards, then 500 yards, then were eliminated. We now tend to see heavy 10-12" round 3/8" steel flasher targets at 300 yards, painted dark grey to black, and impacts leave hardly any marks on the steel. These targets swing only slightly forward/backward on .223 caliber hits. They don't twist for edge hits at 3 or 9 o'clock, and thus windage errors are harder to determine. The targets are generally placed in tall grass flats, or in front of bushes -- target misses are difficult to see. 1-6x optics are now a handicap, and most of the better competitors use 2-10x scopes.

I continue to use a 3-15x scope in this match, as we have the same flasher targets at 400 yards. At this distance the 2-10x optics are at a disadvantage, as they struggle to determine impact locations of both hits and misses.

Sights considerations can have multiple factors.
 
Posts: 6863 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The targets were B/C IPSC steel at various ranges and unpainted, at least not bright white. 207yrds to 470yrds, most around 280-340yrds. In particular there was a time limit of roughly 2 minutes in position after some other shooting and climbing up the hill.

Lucky we had some folks share their ranging with us so we at least had an idea. Most targets were in the tall grass and sage brush, sometimes hard to pick out from the brush and rocks especially early or later in the day.

Almost all targets were fired at from a tank trap with some prone or barricade.

A true one power is desirable for the close in targets, 15-20yrds. A 45* mounted red dot is an option but adds cost and somewhat more to learn.

As I mentioned, there were many other items that need improvement but optics is a big one.




Looking for an Alaskan Malamute? Look here: http://www.moonsongmals.org
Do not send me to a heaven where there are no dogs.
Step Up or Stand Aside: Support the Troops !
 
Posts: 7784 | Location: West | Registered: November 26, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As I understand it, a B/C IPSC is about 12"x23" in overall dimensions, or roughly what I'd call a 2/3 scale IPSC. Compared to the carbine matches I'm in, our target widths are similar, but your targets are noticeably taller. For my 69- to 75-grain ammo, holding the top edge of your plates at 300 yards would result in a center punch. For targets further out than 300 yards with such targets, I would dial elevation according to my dope charts -- as I don't use reticles with estimated drops. But your targets are much taller than they are wide, which doesn't punish you as much for elevation errors.

IMO a ballistic drop reticle makes a lot of sense for you, especially if you are allowed multiple shots per target. If you are only allowed one shot per target, dialing elevation may produce better scores. I find windage hash marks (subtentions) on a retical are critical for hold-offs in my neck of the woods, as wind generally is a challenge here. If wind is minimal for you, and it you can generally hold no more than edge of plate for wind drift, then the windage subtentions aren't as critical for you.

If you're allowed a whole bunch of shots per target, and if time permits, then sorta-kinda-spraying with a lower powered scope might suit you. In my matches, one or two well-placed shots per target is the better approach. Meaning that higher magnification allows me to spot impacts and correct for errors with a minimal number of follow up shots.

But there are the issues of closer targets. For me the close paper A-D IPSCs are about 12" tall in total. Scoring well requires two hits in the A zone, which is in the ballpark of 1" wide and 3" tall. My AR scopes are zeroed at 100 yards. With these smaller paper IPSCs, I place the crosshairs even with the height of the shoulders, essentially where the adam's apple would be. That results in an impact in the upper third of the A zone. I don't worry about the glass being a little fuzzy at close distances, and I just dial down magnification -- to maybe 3x or so.

The other close targets we have are standard sized clay pigeons, hung vertically on wooden stakes, with the dome facing us. One hit counts, and I just place my crosshairs on the 12 o'clock edge of the clay. This produces an impact just above the clay's center.

Tailor your optics to your target observation desires. Try to look through an optic before buying it. The more scopes I look through, the more I realize many are great in concept, but not so great in execution. Scopes that remain in production year after year, remain on the market because they're doing something right. Being a beta tester has its risks. I have purchased scopes that supposedly were the "it thing", then ended up dumping them once I had enough trigger time with them.
 
Posts: 6863 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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