quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
...As for cycling the action with an 870 if an intruder is around, wouldn't you already have a round in the chamber and the safety on if it's for home defense????...

not me - hammer down, safety off, chamber empty, magazine loaded.

If the gun is relatively good shape (not obviously used as a club or crow bar at some point), and the price is right - buy it.

Tear it down and clean it, inspect the O ring, and if it appears in good shape and undamaged you are good to go. put a LIGHT coating of Slide-Glid Lite on the O ring when you put it together and you're good-to-go. If the O ring in nicked or abraded, replace it for a buck or two.

Rem 1100's reputation of being finicky is from the millions of hours they have been deployed in duck hunting blinds, in cold and often wet conditions - when the lube of choice gets a little on the stiff side. NOT conditions to be anticipated for a HD shotgun.

quote:

Originally posted by BufordTJustice:
Let me put your concern about O-ring issues into perspective. My Dad bought a USED Remington 1100 (beauty w/ walnut stocks) with a low, but unknown number of rounds shot through her. In the next few years (while I was still in highschool), my Dad, my brother, and IO shot several hundred of the dirtiest, cheapest Winny white box birdshot at the trap stand of our local range. The gun would sit, uncleaned and unlubricated for years. Yes, YEARS. The first time I took it apart for a detail clean (read: detail clean = anything besides the bore), I had already graduated from college. Since then, several hundred more of the cheap, dirty, winny white box rounds have been fired through it with no issues. It has been several years since I graduated from college and I have not cleaned it since. Yes, my Dad is lazy. I would say that having a cheap Remington piston and ring kit on hand is a good idea. But, with good full-power ammo, and using good form, you shouldn't have any reliability issues.

I have an 1100 in 20 guage which was made in the early 70s and belonged to my dad. He's been gone for 30 years and was either the original owner or bought it used. He's also the last person who might have changed the O-ring. It's only an occasional range gun for skeet, so I don't worry about it. I'm thinking of leaving the original in to see how many years it lasts.

My 1100 has never given me any trouble and I only get 9-10 hours of sleep at night knowing it is nearby.

If the O rings give you concern just change them regularly.

quote:

Originally posted by USAF_Hk:

quote:

Originally posted by rsbolo:
The only reason I might prefer the 870 is the "action sound" that tells intruders they should leave ASAP.

Or the "Shoot me, I'm over here" sound as I like to call it.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

Originally posted by USAF_Hk:

quote:

Originally posted by rsbolo:
The only reason I might prefer the 870 is the "action sound" that tells intruders they should leave ASAP.

Or the "Shoot me, I'm over here" sound as I like to call it.

What is your take on a Surefire forend for a shotgun in that case?

quote:

Originally posted by LoadedDrum:

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

Originally posted by USAF_Hk:

quote:

Originally posted by rsbolo:
The only reason I might prefer the 870 is the "action sound" that tells intruders they should leave ASAP.

Or the "Shoot me, I'm over here" sound as I like to call it.

What is your take on a Surefire forend for a shotgun in that case?

Great light but heavy as hell. I dumped my 20" 870 with Surefire FE for a 590A1 with an 18" barrel. I'm still shopping for a light fix for it but I have some ideas. Much handier in my hallways.

quote:

Originally posted by gibby29:

quote:

Originally posted by LoadedDrum:

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

Originally posted by USAF_Hk:

quote:

Originally posted by rsbolo:
The only reason I might prefer the 870 is the "action sound" that tells intruders they should leave ASAP.

Or the "Shoot me, I'm over here" sound as I like to call it.

What is your take on a Surefire forend for a shotgun in that case?

Great light but heavy as hell. I dumped my 20" 870 with Surefire FE for a 590A1 with an 18" barrel. I'm still shopping for a light fix for it but I have some ideas. Much handier in my hallways.

You might try a TLR-1 with one of forends Choate has that have been set up for rails.
Choate FE with rail
They only list it for the 500 so call them to verify 590 compatibility.

Back to the original topic, this thread has put an 1100 on my must have project gun list.

WTK- Any of you with 1100's for HD use cut down barrels? If so, what if any mods were needed for the gas ports? Also, any one with a 1100 TAC-2 or TAC-4? How is it with light and heavy loads?

About the only person that gets rattled when a pump gun is cycled is me, particularly if the guy behind me is a rookie without a lot of field expereience.
Lets get one thing straight; the concept that a bad guy is going to run away at the sound of a pump SG cycling a round into the chamber is BS, totally and utterly BS.
Remember who we are talking about, a guy who has willingly and knowningly broken into an occupied dwelling. This guy is not thinking straight even if he as not hammered or high. I don't know who thought up that idea, but I have heard it in gunshops for the last 60 yers or so, some showcase cowboy telling a customer thal all he has to do is pump that scattergun and every bad guy within 10 square miles is going to collapse with fear. NOT!!!
Further, you should not be doing any of the following:
1. giving away your position with sound or light.
2. walking around at all-you are in a defensive mode-remember?
3. checking out or investigating anything.
4. doing anything at all except getting you and yours into a preselected defensive room and stay there till the cops arrive.

In Home Defense, defense is the operative word. and for some really good reasons, both tactical and legal. Blazing away into the living room to defend the family silver is simply not an option in todays society. Killing the BG to save you and your family is.
So you stay in a static defensive position, call the cops, do not move till you are sure the cops are there, the BG is gone, and you have established verified coms with the cops, calling 911 back if necessary.
And never, and I mean NEVER, appear in front of the cops armed. The potential for tragedy is simply too great. There may be a cop on the scene who did not get the word that there are armed citizens in the home, or that the BG has not gone, or whatever.
Let the cops come to you, telling them that "there are 3(or whatever) of us, we are in the room at the top of the stairs to the right and I am armed with a shotgun". Then do what ever the cops say.
And oh yeah, I have a couple of 1100s and they are an outstanding HD weapon. Reliable, soft recoiling, and do not need you to do anything except concentrate on pulling the trigger when the circumstances are all in order. And since they are gas operated, they can be "limpwristed" with no problem, unlike inertia/recoil operated weapons.
For a recoil shy individual you can't get a better gun than a 20 gauge 1100.

I've got an 11-87 and an 870. The main reason that I got the 870 was that the 11-87 was not a reliable waterfowl gun, especially in bad weather. I had numerous issues with this shotgun until I finally bought an 870 to use as a backup gun on hunts. It really sucks to be out in a duck blind and have your shotgun not work. The only reason I kept the 11-87 is I didn't want to stick anyone with it. After about 6 trips to the gunsmith for various issues, it finally appears to be working okay. I still don't trust it though and still bring both guns on hunts.

O-ring is a critical component as is routine cleaning. If you look at the gas ports on the 11-87, you'll see why.

If a gun is not a goot hunting gun, I certainly wouldn't depend on it for HD.

Massad Ayoob makes a good case for one in twenty gauge as an HD gun in this month's issue of "Backwoods Home Magazine"

re: 870 configuration

or you could look at it another way, a diversion to you and away from another family member / other family members. I'm not keeping one in the chamber, nope, not going to do it. Not with a 12GA. Not going to fumble with small motor movements of the manual safety. The safety is off / on fire, the hammer is down, the chamber is empty, the magazine is loaded.

quote:

Originally posted by CAPT29:
About the only person that gets rattled when a pump gun is cycled is me, particularly if the guy behind me is a rookie without a lot of field expereience.
Lets get one thing straight; the concept that a bad guy is going to run away at the sound of a pump SG cycling a round into the chamber is BS, totally and utterly BS.
Remember who we are talking about, a guy who has willingly and knowningly broken into an occupied dwelling. This guy is not thinking straight even if he as not hammered or high. I don't know who thought up that idea, but I have heard it in gunshops for the last 60 yers or so, some showcase cowboy telling a customer thal all he has to do is pump that scattergun and every bad guy within 10 square miles is going to collapse with fear. NOT!!!
Further, you should not be doing any of the following:
1. giving away your position with sound or light.
2. walking around at all-you are in a defensive mode-remember?
3. checking out or investigating anything.
4. doing anything at all except getting you and yours into a preselected defensive room and stay there till the cops arrive.

In Home Defense, defense is the operative word. and for some really good reasons, both tactical and legal. Blazing away into the living room to defend the family silver is simply not an option in todays society. Killing the BG to save you and your family is.
So you stay in a static defensive position, call the cops, do not move till you are sure the cops are there, the BG is gone, and you have established verified coms with the cops, calling 911 back if necessary.
And never, and I mean NEVER, appear in front of the cops armed. The potential for tragedy is simply too great. There may be a cop on the scene who did not get the word that there are armed citizens in the home, or that the BG has not gone, or whatever.
Let the cops come to you, telling them that "there are 3(or whatever) of us, we are in the room at the top of the stairs to the right and I am armed with a shotgun". Then do what ever the cops say.
And oh yeah, I have a couple of 1100s and they are an outstanding HD weapon. Reliable, soft recoiling, and do not need you to do anything except concentrate on pulling the trigger when the circumstances are all in order. And since they are gas operated, they can be "limpwristed" with no problem, unlike inertia/recoil operated weapons.
For a recoil shy individual you can't get a better gun than a 20 gauge 1100.

You gotta be kidding me. Somebody breaks into my home with unknown intentions and I need to take a "defensive" posture lest I might rub the legal system or you the wrong way?

You might have to shoot me because I am carrying a gun inside my own home--I know, you feared for YOUR safety--but that argument would not be good enough for me¿¿¿ Your attitude toward civilians makes me what to puke. LEO with that attitude is emblematic of what's wrong with law enforcement these days.

What nanny state do you work in?

Nail

You don't gotta do nothing. He posted his opinion, you disagree with it - no need to bad mouth LE. There is merit with everything that he said if you think about it. Whatever though, sounds like your mind is made up.

Here's a civilian who sides with the good Captain for all kinds of reasons, tactical as well as legal. He's not offering some kind of anti-civilian rhetoric. NRA training courses offer the same advice. Leaving legal issues aside, house clearing by one's self is a high risk task (whether you're a cop or a civilian). It's not a smart "first choice" reaction to threat. If it's possible, it's much smarter to be in a "static" defensive position. (i.e. Make the bad guy come to you).

As for the original question, I just found a "cherry" 870 Police Magnum at a Gander Mountain. I'm thrilled with the gun (which is currently at my smith's place getting a set of Trijicon ghost ring sights installed). However, I notice that serious 3 gun competitors are very partial to autoloaders. If the guns weren't reliable (or couldn't be made reliable) the serious competitors wouldn't use them.

PC

Hi Nail; I want to point out a couple of things about my post which you apparenty found objectionable;
1. I was not trying to TELL anyone, least of all yourself what to do in any given situation.
2. I never said that a responding LEO would HAVE to shoot you, although given your response, I can understand the desire to do so.
The point of this (and other forums) is to share information and expertise. In the matter of tactical shotguns and their use, I have a great deal to share, both technical and practical(you will not find me on a fishing forum).
One of the things about self defense is that one can train for it, ruminate about it, argue about it, but till one has been involved in the actual "seen the elephant" scenario, we just do not know how we are going to respond. We not only have to be technically prepared(equipment), but emotionally prepared and mentally and physically prepared (training).
One of the most important, if not THE most important issues involved is how we are going to be precieved subsequent to a successful use of force in self defense.
You may feel that it is catering to the local prosecutors, I call it staying out of jail. You may call it the police HAVING to shoot you, I call it common sense not to confront an LEO responding to the scene of a felony while armed with and brandishing a shotgun. The first responding LEO may be a guy with 30 years on the street, the dispatcher may have given him all the information properly relayed, as you or someone else has transmitted it to 911.
OR, he might be 3 months out of the academy, and has spent those 3 months riding around on the front 6 inches of his seat waiting for something exciting to happen to him, and he may have been told by the dispatcher that there is a "man with a shotgun" on the scene.
Remember my remark about the only person affected by the racking of the pump gun being the cop in front of the guy with the gun? Well it is true. Not all LEOs are born equal, trained equally, and most (including myself) needed some time to figure out what the hell was really going on out there.
There are frequent tragedies between LEO personnel who do not recgonize and shoot each other, why would it come as a suprise if an LEO responded to the sight of a guy armed with a shotgun (which he has been trained to regard as the deadliest short range weapon out there), by shooting him?
As far as aggressively going after the BG in your home, not only might it be misconstrued by someone later, but clearing rooms is a job for pros, and not just one pro. I am going on a half century of packing weapons professionally, my wife is a large city detective in an SVU, and on their SWAT team. And we have agreed that we will not attempt to clear a home we know intimately, just too many things can go horribly wrong.
In most states, it is illegal, and considered murder in many of them, to shoot someone fleeing from a crime-I am talking about citizens here, not LEOs. Remember fleeing, is not advancing toward you, but leaving you behind. You also may want to remember that in all 50 states there is no statute of limitations on murder. So when Jesse Jackson Jr. is elected the DA in your county, he can go way back and dredge up old cases to try.
If you are so unfortunate as to have to kill someone defending you and yours, I can promise you the following:
1. The media will headline "Homeowner slays youth"
2. His Momma will be on TV (maybe national) saying "my boy wouldn't do that.
3. Jesse and/or Al may show up and tell everyone that "he was going to be a doctor and help people".
4. The 6'4" 225# 17 year old 9th grader will be described as an "honor student".
Shooting the BG is the easy part, the aftermath is harder and lasts a LOT longer.
That is why I suggest a defensive posture, it looks better for you, Nail.
I do not try to tell anyone what they should do-that is a job for your lawyer-and I am not getting paid. I only suggest what might be logical and reasonable, and looked upon that way in the aftermath, remember you have to survive the aftermath also, both criminal and civil.
Thanks for the chance to clarify some things.

" rack your shotty and the bad guy will shit himself, then run screaming for his mom..."

so, you carry your pistol without one up the pipe, then rack your slide to make 'em piss too..

right.
good luck with that.