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| It's not you, it's me.  |
Just taking advantage of the Primary Arms Black Friday sale. I somehow purchased two new lowers at half price. One Aero Precision, One Spikes. I'm tempted to buy the upper that comes without the forward assist. I've never actually used the forward assist. Do I really need the forward assist? | ||
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| Music's over turn out the lights  |
I bought an Aero upper with no forward assist for a .22lr I plan to build. All my other ARs will have a forward assist, rather have it and not need it. David W. Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud. -Sophocles | |||
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Not Today |
Depends on your intended use really. If it's a range toy, you can get by fine without an FA. If it's going to be a defense weapon, get one with a FA. I have both and have honestly never used the FA though. ________________________ Hi,I'm Buck Melonoma,Moley Russels' wart. | |||
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For real? |
I built my home 10.5" 5.56 SBR without a forward assist. I got a gas vent from somewhere that installs in the FA spot. Helps (however little) with suppressed firing. Not minority enough! | |||
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Bone 4 Tuna |
There's no need for one. It's a +/- aesthetics for me. If you need to make sure that the bolt is in battery, you can use the scallop on the bolt carrier that is exposed through the ejection port to give a forward push with a finger. _________________________ An unarmed man can only flee from evil and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it. - Col Jeff Cooper NRA Life Member Long Live the Super Thirty-Eight | |||
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| Member |
"There's no need for one." really explain that one for me. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
I don't even know what to say to this. I want to see you try your just-push-it-with-your-finger technique on an oven-hot AR. | |||
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| Freethinker |
The original purpose of the forward assist was to get a round completely chambered and the bolt in battery despite ammunition corrosion and/or the mud and other contaminants of the sort encountered in warfare in places like Viet Nam. The anti-FA crowd believes that it’s inappropriate to use the forward assist for that purpose, though, because if there’s a problem chambering a round the shooter should just get rid of it or correct the dirt problem, whichever it is. The counterargument to all that, though, is that in a bad situation neither of those options might be possible. It might be better to be able to fire one round even if the case doesn’t then extract than to not be able to shoot at all. I doubt I’ll ever be in that situation, but I still require the device on any rifle I might use for serious purposes. I use it to ensure the bolt is locked forward after doing a chamber check. I’m familiar with the technique of pushing directly on the bolt carrier, but I’m not going to rely on being able to do that effectively after I’ve been standing on perimeter watch in the dark for three hours in single-digit temperatures and I can barely feel my fingers even with gloves on. The purpose of the forward assist is to assist in ensuring the bolt is fully forward. That’s an important purpose, and nothing else does it as well. Added: And oh, yeah: The bolt carrier might be hot instead of the user’s having frozen fingers. ► 6.4/93.6 “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato | |||
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Member |
Though it never materialized for me, due to a near crippling back injury, I wanted to be a fighter pilot in the Marines. Part of the path to getting there took me through Officer Candidates School, which was really just one long muddy, dirty training event. Every single trigger pull (hundreds) of my M16 required the use of the forward assist. The instructors were always very good about making sure we and the rifles were covered and filled with mud and sand, and there was no way you were going to get a round into battery without performing a tap rack bang. While you may get by on a range toy without it, I’d never have a rifle without a forward assist and trust my life to it. | |||
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| Member |
I have been hearing people say that the forward assist isn't useful, for years. I've never understood why. I frequently use it, especially after checking the chamber, to fully seat the bolt. I'm not sticking my finger in there to push the bolt forward, even if I thought I could. I have one rifle that lacks the forward assist. It's a thunder ranch rifle by Noveske. Great rifle, really poor fitting, cheap deflector made to cover the area where the forward assist was actually removed. The idea behind the rifle was light weight, and apparently the forward assist was considered dead weight. I disagree. I see a lot of 9mm uppers with no forward assist, or slick uppers. Personally, I can't see a reason not to have it there. | |||
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| Member |
I'd rather have it and not use it than need it and not have it. | |||
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| Member |
I have it on all but my 9mm as that carrier is not cut for it. I have never needed to use it, but that doesn't mean I never will. I also like the look of the tear drop forward assist, so that is another reason for me to have it. A Perpetual Disappointment... | |||
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Member |
I haven't used the FA in years but as stated above, rather have it and not need it. If you really want something you'll find a way ... ... if you don't you'll find an excuse. I'm really not a "kid" anymore ... but I haven't grown up yet either  | |||
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| Member |
If you're absolutely certain for the rest of your life that your AR will always perfectly chamber a round -- under any circumstances, under any conditions, with all ammo, regardless of the environment, regardless of whether or not the gun is clean or dirty, whether or not the gun is lubed or dry... If you're absolutely certain for the rest of your life that a round not properly chambered will never have any consequences whatsoever.... Then by all means, buy an upper that doesn't have forward assist. | |||
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| Member |
As Stoner intended. | |||
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| Member |
I've been researching slick sided uppers for a while as I hate the look of the FA. I have yet to see a story of someone using it under any type of normal/reasonable circumstances. I still wound up getting an upper with one for my first build. I will do a slick sided in the future. Maybe go halfway an get a side charging upper? | |||
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| Freethinker |
 How do you know that? Did you ask him? Is that something that was discussed way back when the rifle was being designed? If that was the “intended,” and more important, effective method, why was the forward assist added at the request of the M16’s military users? Why didn’t someone just say to the soldiers and Marines in Viet Nam, “Hey, you don’t need an FA to overcome that failure to chamber so you can keep fighting, just push the bolt carrier forward with your finger”? That could have been part of the training that asserted, “This rifle doesn’t need to be cleaned, so that’s why you’re not being issued cleaning equipment.” Not all ideas and “intents” are good ones. I’m aware of very few guns whose designs weren’t changed—and improved—after they were first developed. John Browning is considered to be one of the greatest gun designers of all time, but many (most? all?) of his original designs have been improved since he developed them. I wish the original designers of the rifle had thought about other things at the beginning as well. Adjustable stocks and removable carry handles so optics could be mounted easily are a couple that spring to mind. I suspect that optical sights suitable for military use would have been developed and adopted much sooner if the rifle had made that possible. (And yes, I’m aware there are mounts that attach directly to the carrying handle. I’ve used them myself and it was never any wonder to me why they weren’t adopted and used on a large scale basis.) If someone isn’t backing me up in a firefight, it certainly makes no difference what features they choose on a gun or for what reasons. I even understand aesthetics; I have always disliked the useless trigger guard hooks that SIG has insisted on putting on its pistols. I even bought an S&W M&P partly because they don’t have them. But it’s helpful to the uninformed who come here looking for information to have the full story that goes beyond personal preferences about looks. ► 6.4/93.6 “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato | |||
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| Member |
Apparently my attempt at levity was a fail. I will shut up now. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
The scallop is on the carrier to accommodate the locking plunger assembly for the ejection port cover. Go ahead, John Rambo- heat up that rifle like an oven, then stick your fingers onto the bolt carrier. Let us know how that turns out. Good grief. | |||
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Member |
I used mine once, when the rifle jammed during a rapid-fire stage in a highpower match. It didn't work. Turned out the just-fired case had somehow slipped off the extractor and (unnoticed by me) didn't eject. Instead, it slipped into the space between the BC and the left side of the receiver, and when the BC came forward again it jammed up tight. Needless to say, the FA didn't budge it. | |||
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