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.308 Battle Riffle Loadout Question... Login/Join 
Member
posted
All,

I have an LMT MWS that will be used for home defense (a little too heavy to hump with ammo, body armor, etc. and still be able to move quickly).

I have a bunch of .308 and about 100 tracer rounds.

Would it be wise or unwise to load a tracer with 5 rounds remaining in the mag?

Is there some other loading you would recommend with respect to the tracers?

Should I forget the tracers altogether?

The mags I am loading are not for training or use at an indoor range and will be clearly marked. I have other mags for training for this rifle.


The "Boz"
 
Posts: 1264 | Location: Central Ohio, USA | Registered: May 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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I know Jljones likes to joke about people asking what’s the best ammo to miss with, but I’d be concerned about using tracers indoors, especially in my home. Over penetration is one thing, but killing an intruder and setting the neighbor’s house on fire with the same round after it zips through the bad guy is next-level collateral damage. Other than “just because,” I can’t think of a good reason to use tracers at social distances.


______________________________________________
"It's good for you, because it's got chia seeds and mayonnaise!"
 
Posts: 12449 | Location: Seattle-ish | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Smudge...

Thanks.

This is used as a home defense rifle, not a personal defense rifle.

This is for engaging threats outside of the home at some distance (a standoff weapon), probably from a second story window. Think machine gun nest, but not really.

For inside the home, I have the suppressed SBR's next to the bed. I have both the 300 blackout SBR and the 5.56 SBR.


The "Boz"
 
Posts: 1264 | Location: Central Ohio, USA | Registered: May 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Non-Miscreant
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Think about it for a while. Your house? Maybe a .300 blackout. Or play nicer with your neighbors and not get in a situation where you need home defense. Replace your doors and not piss off others.


Unhappy ammo seeker
 
Posts: 17557 | Location: Kentucky, USA | Registered: February 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Load 3 rounds
Tracer
Load the other 16

Or load 3
2 tracers
The other 15


When you're shooting, and the tracers go off, you know you only have 3 rounds left, and a mag change is in need of happening soon.


_____________________________________________________________________

"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 6397 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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rburg...

Thanks. I only have a house on 1.5 sides of me, 2.5 open fields on the other. I am also in a neighborhood with far too many BLM and Biden signs. Shootings and at the apartments about a 1/2 mile away. So on and so forth.

We are going to be moving within the next 1-2 years to some land without any of these troubles.

Can't help pissing them off. I am white and therefor a racist bigot that caused all of their problems.

CPD...

Thanks. That was the simple answer I was looking for.

Any other loading suggestions?


The "Boz"
 
Posts: 1264 | Location: Central Ohio, USA | Registered: May 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Purveyor of Death
and Destruction
Picture of walker77
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I guess I don't get the point. Doesn't it take about 100 yards before the tracer is visible?
 
Posts: 6924 | Location: Raymore, Missouri | Registered: June 24, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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From Wikipedia:
“Bright tracers are the standard type, which start burning very shortly after exiting the muzzle. A disadvantage of bright tracers is that they give away the shooter's location to the enemy; as a military adage puts it, ‘tracers work both ways’. Bright tracers can also overwhelm night-vision devices, rendering them useless. Subdued tracers burn at full brightness after a hundred or more yards to avoid giving away the gunner's position. Dim tracers burn very dimly but are clearly visible through night-vision equipment.”

I do or at least consider doing a lot of things in possible anticipation of unlikely events, so I’m not throwing any stones here, but I would give some thought to what you’re thinking about.
As mentioned already, tracers have their drawbacks. They can start fires, they reveal the shooter’s position, and a savvy enemy may realize what a series of tracers mean in an engagement: i.e., that you’re about out of ammo.

In view of those possible drawbacks, what is the likelihood that they would be useful for the purpose envisioned? Are we as individuals going through such high volumes of fire that reloads will be necessary and that they will have to be anticipated so as to not be delayed even a couple of seconds after realizing we’re out? There are other questions I could ask about using a rifle and multiple magazines of ammunition for civilian home defense, but that gets even deeper into the speculation weeds, and the answer to that first question is enough for my planning.




To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
— Thomas Paine
 
Posts: 43385 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
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Tracers work both way, I wouldn’t load them in my rifles.
If you need a tracer to remind you are about out of ammo, and need to swap mags you can do the same when the gun runs dry and won’t be giving away your position.

No extra thought required.
No fire hazard down range
No telling people where you are.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

“ You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020

 
Posts: 7956 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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All... Thank you.

I did have 1 additional question:

Is the ability for someone to find your location by "following tracers back to their source" hampered/mitigated with the use of a supressor?

I mean, I could always just use the tracer rounds for fun while shooting in a controlled environement.

Also, these are standard military tracer rounds that are typically loaded in machine gun belts (M62 I believe).

Thanks again...


The "Boz"
 
Posts: 1264 | Location: Central Ohio, USA | Registered: May 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Quiet observer
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In my experience, tracers don't care how quiet the shot was. ;-) The friction of traveling down the barrel ignites them.


Semper Fidelis
 
Posts: 971 | Location: Pocatello, Idaho | Registered: March 10, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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a tracer round is not the best you can do for a defensive round. And I'm not going to give up any rounds in the magazine that really serve no possible positive purpose in my home defense. shoot them for fun, but fill your loadout mags with the best possible ammo for your intended defensive purpose.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 9273 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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jjvg...

Thanks. I was refereeing to the fact that cans eliminate muzzle flash and some sound signature. I did not know if the flash mitigation part of that would make a tracer round harder to trace back to its source. I have no real world experience, but know that others on the forum do.

I will shoot them for fun or in an emergency (all other ammo being depleted).

I usually shoot American Eagle 150gr. rounds through this with good accuracy. I have hunting loads when MOA or better is needed.

Thanks all for the input. Much appreciated.


The "Boz"
 
Posts: 1264 | Location: Central Ohio, USA | Registered: May 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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I have never seen any discussion of firing tracers through suppressors, but as the trace continues for a long distance, I cannot imagine that hiding it inside the can for a few inches would make detecting the source any more difficult. I would also not want the residue from the trace compound building up inside my suppressor. A few shots probably wouldn’t be a big deal, but ….

quote:
Originally posted by jjvgnslngr:
The friction of traveling down the barrel ignites them.


Hmmm …. Never heard that one before. This is from the encyclopedia Britannica:

“Tracer bullets have a column of pyrotechnic composition in the base that is ignited by the flame of the propellant ….” LINK
That is what I’ve always understood about the rounds.

When I was in Vietnam we had a supply of tracer rounds for our Colt Detective Special revolvers with 2 inch barrels. They traced every time they were fired, and I find it hard to believe that it was the friction of those large caliber short barrels that ignited the compound.




To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
— Thomas Paine
 
Posts: 43385 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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ditch the tracer idea.

stick with quality standard ammo.

----------------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 8298 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Already done Sig209...

Mags are packed with my 150gr. Federal American Eagle, with my IMI and hunting rounds in reserve.

The tracers will be a novelty/fun loading.

Thanks for all of the input fellas.


The "Boz"
 
Posts: 1264 | Location: Central Ohio, USA | Registered: May 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
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quote:
Originally posted by bozman:
All... Thank you.

I did have 1 additional question:
Is the ability for someone to find your location by "following tracers back to their source" hampered/mitigated with the use of a supressor?


..


No, tracers begin burning upon firing...suppressor doesn’t make a bit of difference



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

“ You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020

 
Posts: 7956 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd suggest using the hunting ammo first. Ideally, I'd use dedicated defensive ammo (e.g., Hornady TAP Urban, Critical Defense, etc.), but good luck trying to find any. A hollow point or other hunting round is likely to be more effective and less likely to over-penetrate.
 
Posts: 588 | Registered: March 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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