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Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
At one time “active” shooter meant nothing more than someone who was actively involved in the shooting sports. I don’t see any reason why we can’t continue to avoid letting our adversaries associate “shooter” with horrific crimes. When I discuss such things, I try to use “active killer” or “active violence” as a way of emphasizing that shooting isn’t a crime or the problem we face.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38508 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Steve in PA
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I have two AR's and depending on whether one is ready for SHTF or just being stored will dictate how it is stored.

SHTF: Empty chamber, hammer cocked, weapon on safe, magazine inserted.

Plain Storage: Empty chamber, hammer dropped (obviously safety cannot be on) and no magazine inserted.

Either way is fine, just remember to always practice the basics of firearms safety.


Steve
"The Marines I have seen around the world have, the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps." Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945
 
Posts: 3158 | Location: Northeast PA | Registered: June 05, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be not wise in
thine own eyes
Picture of kimber1911
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
At one time “active” shooter meant nothing more than someone who was actively involved in the shooting sports. I don’t see any reason why we can’t continue to avoid letting our adversaries associate “shooter” with horrific crimes. When I discuss such things, I try to use “active killer” or “active violence” as a way of emphasizing that shooting isn’t a crime or the problem we face.

Good point.
The Liberals are very good at changing the meaning of words to suit their agenda.



"This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.”
Donald Trump (POTUS) Jan. 20th 2017

"ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!" King Leonidas of Sparta
 
Posts: 2775 | Location: NC | Registered: December 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"Member"
Picture of cas
posted Hide Post
I store everything uncocked.

I don't even store my AR's with uppers on them, so there's no reason to leave them cocked. Big Grin


_____________________________________________________
Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911.

 
Posts: 16038 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by kimber1911:
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
At one time “active” shooter meant nothing more than someone who was actively involved in the shooting sports. I don’t see any reason why we can’t continue to avoid letting our adversaries associate “shooter” with horrific crimes. When I discuss such things, I try to use “active killer” or “active violence” as a way of emphasizing that shooting isn’t a crime or the problem we face.

Good point.
The Liberals are very good at changing the meaning of words to suit their agenda.

I recall the term "active shooter" being first used by law enforcement agencies, which if true, means that media just relayed the words. US Department of Homeland Security has an "active shooter" booklet which evidently was published in 2008.

Meanings of words and phrases evolve over time. Probably no going back here.
 
Posts: 5503 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hop head
Picture of lyman
posted Hide Post
I am used to having my AR on safe from when I shot high power/service rifle,

as when it was not pointed downrange, the safety was on,,

so now I do the same, clean, check the chamber (before and after of course) and safe, then in the safe,



www.chesterfieldarmament.com
 
Posts: 6944 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
Picture of bronicabill
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
At one time “active” shooter meant nothing more than someone who was actively involved in the shooting sports. I don’t see any reason why we can’t continue to avoid letting our adversaries associate “shooter” with horrific crimes. When I discuss such things, I try to use “active killer” or “active violence” as a way of emphasizing that shooting isn’t a crime or the problem we face.

Thank you!!! That was my intended use of the word... a person actively involved in the shooting sports, specifically those involving the AR-15! I refuse to bow to the libtard definitions of what should be a harmless phrase, and neither should anyone else. For example... "gun violence". When is the last time YOUR guns were violent?!? Don't know about you, but mine have NEVER been, and I don't expect they ever WILL be! Cool


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3234 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bronicabill:
I refuse to bow to the libtard definitions of what should be a harmless phrase, and neither should anyone else.

In that case, why not give a phone call to your closest Homeland Security office? State your exact address, state that you are an "active shooter", maybe even make some loud popping noises while on the call. Sit tight and see what happens.

Language evolves. It doesn't matter what the source is -- law enforcement agencies, technological changes, rebellious youth, foreign influence, political change, boyz in da hood, whatever. We can choose to deal with evolution, maybe even learn to embrace it. Or we can cling to diction that does not communicate well with a significant portion of society.
 
Posts: 5503 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
Chamber empty, and selector on safe.

In my world, there is absolutely no reason for the selector to be on fire, unless I am putting rounds on something. I've been shooting ARs seriously since 1996. I have seen zero evidence across personal or our fleet of patrol rifles to believe that leaving the gun cocked with the selector on safe is going to damage anything.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 31918 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
jljones so you don't require your rifles to be cleared and dry fired (obviously into an approved safe location) at any point in your storage protocol? I'm not talking about active or standby use, but storage.
I truly have a hard time understanding that.

The original question was about long term storage which most of the replies have not seemed to actually address(at least in the context I would understand long term storage). But I have actually tested storing AR's long term and I can't see a single reason to store it or any weapon with a spring under tension if its doesn't have to be.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 7101 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
Picture of bronicabill
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
quote:
Originally posted by bronicabill:
I refuse to bow to the libtard definitions of what should be a harmless phrase, and neither should anyone else.

In that case, why not give a phone call to your closest Homeland Security office? State your exact address, state that you are an "active shooter", maybe even make some loud popping noises while on the call. Sit tight and see what happens.

Language evolves. It doesn't matter what the source is -- law enforcement agencies, technological changes, rebellious youth, foreign influence, political change, boyz in da hood, whatever. We can choose to deal with evolution, maybe even learn to embrace it. Or we can cling to diction that does not communicate well with a significant portion of society.

Okay... “Active Fucking Participants”.

Happy now?!? I’m done with this conversation and sorry I even started it! Geez...


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3234 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
jljones so you don't require your rifles to be cleared and dry fired (obviously into an approved safe location) at any point in your storage protocol? I'm not talking about active or standby use, but storage.
I truly have a hard time understanding that.

The original question was about long term storage which most of the replies have not seemed to actually address(at least in the context I would understand long term storage). But I have actually tested storing AR's long term and I can't see a single reason to store it or any weapon with a spring under tension if its doesn't have to be.


Again there is no proof that not letting the hammer down does any damage to the gun. There are no reasons for the selector to be off safe except when you are firing. Do nothing storage protocols that make us feel like “we’re doing something” that require us to defeat manufacturer installed safety mechanisms are not smart.

There is no valid reason to store the rifle with the hammer down and safety off. None.

(Cue up Blackhawk Down references)


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 31918 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I'm lost. So you clear the gun (drop mag, check chamber, drop hammer) and then you think you should charge it to just put on the safety. That's beyond my pay grade.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 7101 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Why do you need to drop the hammer after you remove magazine and check that the chamber is clear? Drop mag, check for clear, put on Safe and leave it alone.
 
Posts: 1239 | Location: WI | Registered: December 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
To be safe(r). Ever been to a completion? drop mag, show clear, inspect chamber, drop slide/ bolt, pull trigger. move on.
The US Army protocol actually leaves the gun as jljones suggests, but he doesn't actually follow the mechanism they use to get there. But in any case here it is (US Army std.)
1.Point the muzzle in a designated SAFE DIRECTION. Attempt to place selector lever on SAFE. If weapon is not cocked, lever cannot be placed on SAFE.
2.Remove the magazine by depressing the magazine catch button and pulling the magazine down.
3.To lock bolt open, pull charging handle rearward. Press bottom of bolt catch and allow bolt to move forward until it engages bolt catch. Return charging handle to full forward position. If you have not done so before, place the selector lever on SAFE.
4.Visually (not physically) inspect the receiver and chamber to ensure these areas contain no ammo.
5.With the selector lever pointing toward SAFE, allow the bolt to go forward by pressing the upper portion of the bolt catch.
6.Place the selector lever on SEMI and squeeze the trigger.
7.Pull the charging handle fully rearward and release it, allowing the bolt to return to the full forward position.
8.Place the selector lever on SAFE.
9.Close the ejection port cover.

I personally don't see any reason for pursuing steps 7-9 for a gun headed for long term storage, but that's just my opinion. I'm completely sure in short term storage it doesn't make a hoot of difference.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 7101 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hop head
Picture of lyman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
To be safe(r). Ever been to a completion? drop mag, show clear, inspect chamber, drop slide/ bolt, pull trigger. move on.
The US Army protocol actually leaves the gun as jljones suggests, but he doesn't actually follow the mechanism they use to get there. But in any case here it is (US Army std.)
1.Point the muzzle in a designated SAFE DIRECTION. Attempt to place selector lever on SAFE. If weapon is not cocked, lever cannot be placed on SAFE.
2.Remove the magazine by depressing the magazine catch button and pulling the magazine down.
3.To lock bolt open, pull charging handle rearward. Press bottom of bolt catch and allow bolt to move forward until it engages bolt catch. Return charging handle to full forward position. If you have not done so before, place the selector lever on SAFE.
4.Visually (not physically) inspect the receiver and chamber to ensure these areas contain no ammo.
5.With the selector lever pointing toward SAFE, allow the bolt to go forward by pressing the upper portion of the bolt catch.
6.Place the selector lever on SEMI and squeeze the trigger.
7.Pull the charging handle fully rearward and release it, allowing the bolt to return to the full forward position.
8.Place the selector lever on SAFE.
9.Close the ejection port cover.

I personally don't see any reason for pursuing steps 7-9 for a gun headed for long term storage, but that's just my opinion. I'm completely sure in short term storage it doesn't make a hoot of difference.




what comps are you shooting?


Service Rifle,

drop mag
pull bolt back,
visually inspect
insert ECI into chamber
put gun on safe
put gun on stool or matt,
keep muzzle down range at all times,
don't touch the gun until you are allowed (prep period) unless leaving the line and then it best be muzzle up, safety on, ECI in the rifle,

close the bolt when you put it in your case



www.chesterfieldarmament.com
 
Posts: 6944 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
To be safe(r). Ever been to a completion? drop mag, show clear, inspect chamber, drop slide/ bolt, pull trigger. move on.
The US Army protocol actually leaves the gun as jljones suggests, but he doesn't actually follow the mechanism they use to get there. But in any case here it is (US Army std.)
1.Point the muzzle in a designated SAFE DIRECTION. Attempt to place selector lever on SAFE. If weapon is not cocked, lever cannot be placed on SAFE.
2.Remove the magazine by depressing the magazine catch button and pulling the magazine down.
3.To lock bolt open, pull charging handle rearward. Press bottom of bolt catch and allow bolt to move forward until it engages bolt catch. Return charging handle to full forward position. If you have not done so before, place the selector lever on SAFE.
4.Visually (not physically) inspect the receiver and chamber to ensure these areas contain no ammo.
5.With the selector lever pointing toward SAFE, allow the bolt to go forward by pressing the upper portion of the bolt catch.
6.Place the selector lever on SEMI and squeeze the trigger.
7.Pull the charging handle fully rearward and release it, allowing the bolt to return to the full forward position.
8.Place the selector lever on SAFE.
9.Close the ejection port cover.

I personally don't see any reason for pursuing steps 7-9 for a gun headed for long term storage, but that's just my opinion. I'm completely sure in short term storage it doesn't make a hoot of difference.



I completely agree that there is no reason for steps 7-9. Not that I think it will hurt anything at all mechanically. Springs wear out from cycling, not from being compressed and left.

But if a safety lever will not actuate to fire, I know that the hammer has been dropped and that there is no chance the rifle can fire.

If the safety lever will actuate, then I need to check the chamber to ensure that the rifle is truly cleared.
 
Posts: 13173 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by lyman:
quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
To be safe(r). Ever been to a completion? drop mag, show clear, inspect chamber, drop slide/ bolt, pull trigger. move on.
The US Army protocol actually leaves the gun as jljones suggests, but he doesn't actually follow the mechanism they use to get there. But in any case here it is (US Army std.)
1.Point the muzzle in a designated SAFE DIRECTION. Attempt to place selector lever on SAFE. If weapon is not cocked, lever cannot be placed on SAFE.
2.Remove the magazine by depressing the magazine catch button and pulling the magazine down.
3.To lock bolt open, pull charging handle rearward. Press bottom of bolt catch and allow bolt to move forward until it engages bolt catch. Return charging handle to full forward position. If you have not done so before, place the selector lever on SAFE.
4.Visually (not physically) inspect the receiver and chamber to ensure these areas contain no ammo.
5.With the selector lever pointing toward SAFE, allow the bolt to go forward by pressing the upper portion of the bolt catch.
6.Place the selector lever on SEMI and squeeze the trigger.
7.Pull the charging handle fully rearward and release it, allowing the bolt to return to the full forward position.
8.Place the selector lever on SAFE.
9.Close the ejection port cover.

I personally don't see any reason for pursuing steps 7-9 for a gun headed for long term storage, but that's just my opinion. I'm completely sure in short term storage it doesn't make a hoot of difference.




what comps are you shooting?


Service Rifle,

drop mag
pull bolt back,
visually inspect
insert ECI into chamber
put gun on safe
put gun on stool or matt,
keep muzzle down range at all times,
don't touch the gun until you are allowed (prep period) unless leaving the line and then it best be muzzle up, safety on, ECI in the rifle,

close the bolt when you put it in your case


USPSA procedures for handguns, all handguns,

Unload and show the range officer an empty chamber. Done properly the RO MUST visually inspect the chamber to ensure that it is indeed empty.

At which point the RO will instruct the shooter to slide forward, hammer down, holster.

Multiple layers of safety.


Procedure is the same in 3-gun for rifle and shotgun, but chamber flags are pretty much standard for long guns after the physical inspection by the RO.
 
Posts: 13173 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:


There is no valid reason to store the rifle with the hammer down and safety off. None.




In a storage scenario I would argue that either method is equally valid, provided that each individual adhere to consistency and observes all the other safety rules of handling firearms.

I can verify that a rifle is hammer down and unable to be fired by checking to see if a selector will actuate to the safe position.

I contend that it makes no difference either way.
 
Posts: 13173 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Do nothing storage protocols that make us feel like “we’re doing something” that require us to defeat manufacturer installed safety mechanisms are not smart.



How is dropping the hammer on an empty chamber 'defeating manufacturer installed safety mechanisms'?


I store my glocks striker down.

When I am putting a sig into a range bag at the end of a range session, I don't decock it, I point it in a safe direction and drop the hammer. It is one more layer of safety that there was not an errant round that happened to make it into the chamber.

When I clean an AR in my house, I point it at an 18" thick brick wall with no people behind it, and drop the hammer on an empty chamber before I put it back in the safe.

How is this less safe than dropping the bolt and actuating the safety?

To be clear, I am not saying that your method is not safe. But it is not more safe than what I am doing.
 
Posts: 13173 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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