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Romanian M69 .22LR Military Training Rifle Login/Join 
34" Scale 5-String
Picture of bronicabill
posted
While in a neighboring town yesterday, I made the mistake of dropping into their best gun shop/pawnshop for a "quick look around". I really should know better than to do stuff like this because it always costs me money that I don't have, and this time was no exception! Roll Eyes

Hidden back over in one corner of the long gun section was a ugly duckling .22 bolt-action rifle, and my eyes were naturally drawn to it because it looked "Eastern Bloc" military in appearance, despite being a .22LR. Of course I just had to go pick it up and see what it was! I couldn't find a brand name on it anywhere, or country of origin, but the mfg date of 1980, overall excellent condition, and price of $175.00 piqued my interest, so I took it over to the counter to see what else I could find out about it from the owner of the shop.

He didn't know a whole lot about it other than a local doctor had ordered a bunch of them through their shop as mil-surp, and threaded the ends of the barrels to add suppressors. That was back in the '90's, and this one last rifle had not been sold and was forgotten about in their stockroom until a week or so ago when they found it again, tagged it and put it out on the rack! I asked him if he'd hold it for me until Friday, which was the earliest I would be able to have any money for it, and to give me some time to research it, and he willingly obliged.

A quick Google search for "Romanian .22 bolt action rifle" immediately found what I had been looking at... the Romanian M69 Military Training Rifle. First made in 1969 to train civilians who didn't know how to shoot, and designed to reasonably replicate the Mosin-Nagant (I have trouble seeing the similarity, but that's what all of the various history profiles claim), it is typical of the era... built to be rugged and reasonably reliable, with little thought to how it looks! It includes a 23" barrel with post front sight which is protected by a pinned hood, triple-leaf rear sight with a leaf for 25, 50 and 100 meters (the 25 and 50 flip up to allow quick bullet drop compensation if the range is known so you don't have to "hold over"), and milled, grooved receiver for optics if you can find any that'll fit (I'm reading the grooves are narrower than typical .22 grooved receivers, but I'm not interested in optics on this rifle anyway). From all accounts I've read so far, the accuracy from these are quite good, especially if you use good ammo, and is frequently on par with much more expensive rifles such as the CZ 452! That's a claim I'll have to verify on my own, but I'm not going to hold my breath just yet; if it gets close, then I'll be quite happy! Big Grin

The magazine is a 5-shot deal, and according to the shop owner, will be extremely difficult to find a replacement should I lose this one. Apparently he hasn't heard of eBay or GunBroker, because OEM and aftermarket mags are quite available from both sources, and many others, and typically run about $20.00 each plus shipping! I'll be stocking up because I'm sure they won't last forever...

Finally, the stock is typical of Eastern Bloc military firearms... ugly, but it IS real wood! From my research, many (most?) of them are something like birch, though quite a few have been stripped of the thick, ugly orange-colored finish and found to be walnut underneath! The one I have on hold looks good as far as lack of any damage, deep gouges or anything like that, but the lack of wood grain tells me it is probably the common birch. A lot of people strip the ugly finish off since there is no real collector value to these things, then refinish with a dark walnut stain and satin polyurethane varnish to seal it back up. I will likely do the same eventually. One thing I didn't know about until I got home is the stock houses a cleaning kit behind the butt plate; I will have to check and see if this one is still there. If not, I'll use it as a bargaining chip to lower the price! Oh, and sling swivels are already on the rifle, though they are too narrow for modern slings, but that won't be a big deal to me.

Here is a pic I swiped from the internet of one... if you want to see more detailed images, just do a search for "Romanian M69 .22 Training Rifle Images" and you'll find everything you wanted to see, and more! Big Grin



Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That looks like a neat little rifle. FWIW,though, it looks a lot more like a K98 than a Mosin.
 
Posts: 21783 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
Picture of bronicabill
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Yeah, I don’t see the similarity to the Mosin either, but more than 2 or 3 websites claim that is what it was designed to replicate. You know what “they say”, if you read it on the internet, it must be true! LOL Big Grin


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raptorman
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Sweet little rifle!


____________________________

Eeewwww, don't touch it!
Here, poke at it with this stick.
 
Posts: 30619 | Location: North, GA | Registered: October 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The Polish WZ-48 is the .22 military trainer that resembles the Mosin-Nagant. It is a single shot, and was on the surplus market about 15-20 years ago. The Romanian M69 is a 5 shot repeater (IIRC, the M-69, was about $29 wholesale, $49 retail 15-20 years ago).

The WZ-48:
 
Posts: 1281 | Location: Washington (State) | Registered: August 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
Picture of bronicabill
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quote:
Originally posted by Sgt Neutron:
The Polish WZ-48 is the .22 military trainer that resembles the Mosin-Nagant. It is a single shot, and was on the surplus market about 15-20 years ago. The Romanian M69 is a 5 shot repeater (IIRC, the M-69, was about $29 wholesale, $49 retail 15-20 years ago).

The WZ-48:

Yes, the WZ-48 looks much more like the Nagant.... difference being of course the country of mfg. The M69 is supposedly Romania’s version... and yes, it is a 5-shot magazine-fed repeater vs the Polish single-shot. Prices have most definitely gone way up on them since they first came into the country back in the ‘90’s. Wish I could have gotten it for those old prices, but obviously that is not to be!


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
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In my OP, I made the comment that they were holding it for me until Friday, but I was able to raise funds unexpectedly early, so went back today and looked it over again with all the new info I’d learned from last night’s research, really liked what I saw in general, and started negotiating a lower price. Ended up taking it out the door for a fair amount less than the original asking price, so I’m a happy camper! Now I just need to get it to the range, then order some spare mags once function is confirmed! Will post some pics tomorrow when I get a chance, but honestly, it looks identical to the pic I copied off the web, and you won’t be able to tell the difference. Smile


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Waiting for Hachiko
Picture of Sunset_Va
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Neat little rifle.

If you refinish the stock, why not go back to a reddish-orange finish?


美しい犬
 
Posts: 4997 | Location: Near the Metropolis of Tightsqueeze, Va | Registered: February 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
Picture of bronicabill
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quote:
Originally posted by Sunset_Va:
Neat little rifle.

If you refinish the stock, why not go back to a reddish-orange finish?

Because then there would be no reason in my mind to refinish it... Big Grin

Actually, the more I think about it, the more likely I am to leave it all-original!


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I bought one of these about 14 years ago for 70.00 from a local gun shop. I ended up selling it a few years ago to someone who just had to have it. I found mine to be pretty accurate, but the trigger was on the crummy side. I also had magazine issues as it would reliably jam 2-3 rounds out of just about every magazine. I had 2 OEM and 3 Taiwanese magazines and they all performed the same. It was a neat rifle though and I did keep an AK74 cleaning kit in the butt trap compartment...but I could never find a correct-type cleaning rod.


FG42 Type G, Ruger GSR, P250 Compact 9mm w/45ACP Compact conversion, H&K VP9 & other cool stuff.

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Posts: 693 | Location: central NC | Registered: March 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
Picture of bronicabill
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Yep, reliable feeding from the mags is the number one complaint I could find. Some people were able to remedy theirs and others couldn’t; much depended on the individual rifle, and the ability of the person doing the tinkering!

The trigger on this one isn’t too bad, and I’m a decent tinkerer myself (did my own trigger job on my 10/22 using only Arkansas whet stones, and it turned out great), so I figure I’ll work on it a bit as time allows.


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
Picture of bronicabill
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quote:
Originally posted by TSgt_Matt:
<<snip>> I also had magazine issues as it would reliably jam 2-3 rounds out of just about every magazine. I had 2 OEM and 3 Taiwanese magazines and they all performed the same. <<snip>>

This is a commonly reported item, and for what it's worth, mine wouldn't feed ANY rounds from the magazine! However, I found the solution, and it has nothing to do with the magazines at all. Big Grin

As many others discovered, the issue is the firing pin/ejector not retracting properly as the bolt is pushed back in. If it sticks out at all, it will prevent the next round from sliding up the bolt face into position. And no, by default, there is no spring to push it backwards, though I have discovered one can be added from a retractable ball point pin; the hole is actually already there inside the bolt... you just have to find a spring on the smallish side to fit, which I understand is very easy to do.

In my case, I simply flushed out the gunk from the firing pin channel with Gun Scrubber, blew it dry with compressed air, then lubed it lightly with very thin TriFlow. The firing pin floats like a twig on water, and the rounds feed perfectly now! I haven't had a chance to take it to the range yet, but I did pump 5 rounds of Aguila Colibri into a full trashcan in my workshop as quickly as I could operate the bolt handle, and even with the muzzle pointing down, the firing pin stayed back on closing the bolt like it should and every fresh round fed perfectly!

By the way, the Colibri rounds out of that 23" barrel are quieter than mouse farts!!! Cool


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Waiting for Hachiko
Picture of Sunset_Va
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quote:
Originally posted by bronicabill:
quote:
Originally posted by Sunset_Va:
Neat little rifle.

If you refinish the stock, why not go back to a reddish-orange finish?

Because then there would be no reason in my mind to refinish it... Big Grin

Actually, the more I think about it, the more likely I am to leave it all-original!


I thought perhaps the stock was dinged up badly, hence the need for a refinish.


美しい犬
 
Posts: 4997 | Location: Near the Metropolis of Tightsqueeze, Va | Registered: February 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
Picture of bronicabill
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quote:
Originally posted by Sunset_Va:
I thought perhaps the stock was dinged up badly, hence the need for a refinish.

Well, it is dinged pretty ad in a few places, but that is not the reason I would redo the finish.... if I choose to do so. Mostly I just want to get rid of the orange shellac that looks like it was globbed on with an old paintbrush, then stain it a dark walnut with a satin polyurethane varnish.


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Web Clavin Extraordinaire
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Ah the good old days!

I sold dozens of those things way back when. I think they hovered between $40 and $70, depending on the sale. The ones that passed through my hands were of pretty consistent finish: not too dinged, no rust, decent bluing and not a ton of wear.

Shoulda bought one back then and I wouldn't think twice about dropping that kind of money now, but not back then.

Ya win some, ya lose some!


----------------------------

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Educating the youth of America, one declension at a time.
 
Posts: 17836 | Location: SE PA | Registered: January 12, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
Picture of bronicabill
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This one has a fair amount of dings in the wood, but zero signs of actually being shot. Now that I got the gunk cleaned out of the firing pin channel and relubed so that it retracts like it should and fresh rounds feed properly, function seems to be 100%. I just have to get it out on the range to see what the accuracy is like! Its trigger is no worse than what came in my daughter’s new 10/22 about 5 years ago, so it shouldn’t be too difficult to shoot fairly well without messing with the trigger on it first.


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nice gun. I see them listed in the $200 range sometimes. The trigger is very easy to polish and smooth up. Mine had problems jamming with ammo until I tried Federal 711b match. It's cheap and very accurate in this gun and now the rifle is 100% reliable.
 
Posts: 753 | Location: near the 101 and 92 in Calif. | Registered: August 08, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
Picture of bronicabill
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quote:
Originally posted by Berg:
Nice gun. I see them listed in the $200 range sometimes. The trigger is very easy to polish and smooth up. Mine had problems jamming with ammo until I tried Federal 711b match. It's cheap and very accurate in this gun and now the rifle is 100% reliable.

For under $175 out the door, I’m plenty happy with it already, and still haven’t gotten to the outdoor range for accuracy testing due to snow, bitter cold temps, plus illness on my part!

Soon, very soon... it will happen. I’m quite happy with it already, so expect to be be VERY pleased on the outdoor range! Big Grin


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sounds like you got off pretty cheap for your lgs curiosity. I might not be able to resist that one either except maybe for mag availability. Years ago I made the same mistake and picked up a CZ 513 basic for a couple hundred. Enjoy your new to you 22.

 
Posts: 2164 | Registered: May 30, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
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Quite surprisingly, mags are readily available on eBay as well as other sources for around $20.00 each! I was expecting to have to live with the one mag that came with the gun, so was VERY surprised.... shocked even, at how easy it is to find more!


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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