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Can anyone educate me on the super-short AR's? Login/Join 
Member
Picture of kimberkid
posted
I started to ask on Grumpy Bikers short barrel thread, but he was wanting to see them, not know how to build them.

I'm a little behind the curve with the super-short AR barrel guns ... By super-short I'm talking about the 7" & 8" ... and if there is a 6" that too ... I'm thinking a 556/223 pistol.

So I wanna ask a few questions ... 10.5" is the shortest I'm "aquainted" with when it comes to short barrel AR's.

Are they reliable in 223/556? If so, what does it take for it to be reliable? Heavy or light buffer? Low mass bolt carrier?

Is it best to buy an upper off the shelf? Like PSA ... or are they any good for the SS's?

Do they have to shoot special ammo?

Anything I've left out / not asked, that I need to know?

Educate me all around if you would. I've got a couple spare receivers and pistol kits but they just have standard buffers ... Do the super shorts work better with a gas or piston system?

Thanks in advance!


If you really want something you'll find a way ...
... if you don't you'll find an excuse.

I'm really not a "kid" anymore ... but I haven't grown up yet either Wink
 
Posts: 4497 | Registered: January 11, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My hypocrisy goes only so far
Picture of GrumpyBiker
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The shortest AR I have is a complete SAA 7.5" Upper on a Stag Arms lower.
Standard buffer, no special ammunition (xm193 & 55rg .223 bulk).
No issues since it's first trip out.
This was my first AR pistol & the reliability inspired me to aquire more.

As it sits now









Originally



Mind your forward support bag location...




I have shot this out to 75yrds but I've always seen this as a 25yrd setup.





U.S.M.C.
VFW-8054
III%

"Never let a Wishbone grow where a Backbone should be "



 
Posts: 5791 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a 7.5” Adams Arms piston upper on a SBR lower. It’s loud, very accurate out to 50 yards, compact and did I mention loud? It’s fun and has never had a mishap with anythinf I’ve put through it.
 
Posts: 2112 | Location: The Low Country | Registered: October 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Green Mountain Boy
Picture of Jus228
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Call me curious. I'm gonna follow this.

Any muzzle devices (besides suppressors) to help tame the blast felt and heard by the shooter?


!~God Bless the U.S. Military~!

If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off

Light travels faster than sound, this is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
 
Posts: 5484 | Location: Vermont | Registered: March 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Plowing straight ahead come what may
Picture of Bisleyblackhawk
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quote:
Originally posted by Jus228:
Call me curious. I'm gonna follow this.

Any muzzle devices (besides suppressors) to help tame the blast felt and heard by the shooter?


I've got a KAK flash can on my 10.5" .556 pistol...it does make it a little better for the shooter by sending some of the blast downrange. The only thing I can attest to is that it does make a difference when compared to a friend's 10.5" with a birdcage...

https://www.kakindustry.com/kak-industry-flash-can

Now, my 7.5" .300 Blackout w/ a birdcage...THAT IS LOUD Big Grin


********************************************************

"we've gotta roll with the punches, learn to play all of our hunches
Making the best of what ever comes our way
Forget that blind ambition and learn to trust your intuition
Plowing straight ahead come what may
And theres a cowboy in the jungle"
Jimmy Buffet
 
Posts: 8152 | Location: Southeast Tennessee...not far above my homestate Georgia | Registered: March 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of kimberkid
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Being able to use common ammo is a huge relief!

A few months ago I bought a Spikes "Sparkle" receiver with the intent of doing a Dead Pool build but haven't started it yet ... Still don't have a trigger and have been looking at complete uppers since starting this thread ... Here's what I've got so far;



I know it's probably not something I can suppress without voiding the suppressor warranty but I really like that flash suppressor you have Grumpy, and I may have asked you about it before. However it won't work with the PSA Maurader 7" upper I'm kind of looking at; Magpul handguard and flash can but no BC or CH for $179 and free shipping, but the deal ends noon tomorrow ... they have a few others too (of course!) I should probably be looking at one with the 6" handguard if I'm going to use a flash suppressor like Grumpys.


If you really want something you'll find a way ...
... if you don't you'll find an excuse.

I'm really not a "kid" anymore ... but I haven't grown up yet either Wink
 
Posts: 4497 | Registered: January 11, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Plowing straight ahead come what may
Picture of Bisleyblackhawk
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quote:
Originally posted by kimberkid:
Still don't have a trigger


For a pretty good trigger for the money (with free shipping) I have three of these in my builds and each one has been great...

http://www.tomstactical.com/To...ger-Group_p_169.html


********************************************************

"we've gotta roll with the punches, learn to play all of our hunches
Making the best of what ever comes our way
Forget that blind ambition and learn to trust your intuition
Plowing straight ahead come what may
And theres a cowboy in the jungle"
Jimmy Buffet
 
Posts: 8152 | Location: Southeast Tennessee...not far above my homestate Georgia | Registered: March 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of kimberkid
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quote:
Originally posted by Bisleyblackhawk:
quote:
Originally posted by kimberkid:
Still don't have a trigger


For a pretty good trigger for the money (with free shipping) I have three of these in my builds and each one has been great...

http://www.tomstactical.com/To...ger-Group_p_169.html

I've been really happy with the RockRiver 2-stage Match and Varmint triggers ... Not saying that's what I'm going to go with but ive been using them for years ... The last one I bought was one of the Ruger 2-stage and it's pretty decent.

I've been looking at the braces that are available now and it's amazing! I don't think the ATF had any idea of the floodgates they were opening when they approved the first one ... I have no idea what to go with, I was thinking a Tail Hook but now I don't know!


If you really want something you'll find a way ...
... if you don't you'll find an excuse.

I'm really not a "kid" anymore ... but I haven't grown up yet either Wink
 
Posts: 4497 | Registered: January 11, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My hypocrisy goes only so far
Picture of GrumpyBiker
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If anyone is leaning towards the SBM4 ... FYI , Odin Works makes a locking collar for it as well.







U.S.M.C.
VFW-8054
III%

"Never let a Wishbone grow where a Backbone should be "



 
Posts: 5791 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As mentioned, 7.5” for me voids any suppressor warranty for what I currently have. Oh well, nothing wrong with building a 10.5” I suppose.
 
Posts: 2112 | Location: The Low Country | Registered: October 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Although I have a 10.5” in 5.56, I don’t get super short (6-8”) ARs in that caliber. You drop off so much muzzle velocity that it’s a short range weapon, plus have to deal with the considerable muzzle blast that close to your face. Suppressors aren’t really that effective because the round will be supersonic no matter what, and many won’t warranty that short a barrel. For going that short, I’d rather go .300 BO subs, or even a 9mm or .45 shorty.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dwill104,
 
Posts: 1670 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I just want to know if any of y'all have found tricks to get the PM400's buffer tube off without damaging the receiver? A buddy recommended acetone to dissolve the red loctite it is supposedly secured with, which would be a lot less risky than a torch. Once I'm done with that, I'll have my PM400 SBR done.
 
Posts: 19 | Location: Virginia | Registered: May 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of myrottiety
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Just that the shorter you go the louder it gets. My 10.5 SBR in 5.56 will create a concussion indoors so loud the whole line leans back to see WTF i'm shooting.




Train how you intend to Fight

Remember - Training is not sparring. Sparring is not fighting. Fighting is not combat.
 
Posts: 7485 | Location: Alpharetta, GA | Registered: August 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of kimberkid
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quote:
Originally posted by US_P225:
I just want to know if any of y'all have found tricks to get the PM400's buffer tube off without damaging the receiver? A buddy recommended acetone to dissolve the red loctite it is supposedly secured with, which would be a lot less risky than a torch. Once I'm done with that, I'll have my PM400 SBR done.

For red Loc-tite I've always used a heat gun, like for stripping paint. I don't get it so hot it strips the finish on the gun/tube but it makes it hot enough it would burn your fingers! It takes a bit longer but the risk of scorching the finish is much lower.


If you really want something you'll find a way ...
... if you don't you'll find an excuse.

I'm really not a "kid" anymore ... but I haven't grown up yet either Wink
 
Posts: 4497 | Registered: January 11, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of dwd1985
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I have a Sig 516 7.5" upper that has been ultra reliable with any ammo I put through it. For AR's that short, I think a piston system is the way to go, I wouldn't trust a DI AR shorter than 10.5".
 
Posts: 3497 | Registered: October 28, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Armed and Gregarious
Picture of DMF
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quote:
Originally posted by myrottiety:
Just that the shorter you go the louder it gets. My 10.5 SBR in 5.56 will create a concussion indoors so loud the whole line leans back to see WTF i'm shooting.
Yeah, I hate shooting next to our SWAT guys at quals, as they all 10.5 barrels. The difference between those and the 14.5" guns the rest of us habe is huge. Even with plugs and muffs it's painful to be next to them.

I'm thinking about putting together an AR pistol in 5.56, but will put on a linear compensator if I do.


___________________________________________
"He was never hindered by any dogma, except the Constitution." - Ty Ross speaking of his grandfather General Barry Goldwater

"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." - William Tecumseh Sherman
 
Posts: 12142 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by DMF:
quote:
Originally posted by myrottiety:
Just that the shorter you go the louder it gets. My 10.5 SBR in 5.56 will create a concussion indoors so loud the whole line leans back to see WTF i'm shooting.
Yeah, I hate shooting next to our SWAT guys at quals, as they all 10.5 barrels. The difference between those and the 14.5" guns the rest of us habe is huge. Even with plugs and muffs it's painful to be next to them.

I'm thinking about putting together an AR pistol in 5.56, but will put on a linear compensator if I do.
.

I put a PWS CQB on both of my 10.5s.
 
Posts: 1670 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My hypocrisy goes only so far
Picture of GrumpyBiker
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quote:
Originally posted by myrottiety:
Just that the shorter you go the louder it gets. My 10.5 SBR in 5.56 will create a concussion indoors so loud the whole line leans back to see WTF i'm shooting.



The flash signature from my FatComp1 is intriguing!
While I hear it ring off the metal roof of the outside over head cover I don't notice that much of a concussion.
The folks around me usually have a big smile when I'm shooting it but the guys at my range seem to be of a different sort.
The grouchy ones , I'll offer them the chance to shoot it & they usually leave with smiling.
Shaking their heads but smiling!!
Of course that's only when I'm zeroing my AR pistols.
Once zeroed I get them off the bench & I go to the uncovered 50yrd range where it doesn't hurt the more delicate shooters or interfere with those trying zero their toys.







U.S.M.C.
VFW-8054
III%

"Never let a Wishbone grow where a Backbone should be "



 
Posts: 5791 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
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Any shorter than 10.3 and you are losing so much velocity with 223/5.56 at that point that you might as well go pistol caliber and save yourself the concussion.


If it's a range toy for fun, go ahead and build whatever tickles your fancy. I'm not a fan of loud just for the sake of being loud. I like my 11.5 with silencer attached. I think I have only fired perhaps 50 rounds through that thing without the silencer in place. It wasn't noticeably obnoxious, but I built it specifically for a suppressed option that roughly mimics the handling characteristics of a typical 16" carbine.


If any of you are in the market for a silencer, don't ignore the weight. I like my can but my next one will be lightweight.
 
Posts: 13064 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
I'm not a fan of loud just for the sake of being loud.

Bingo

A buddy has been shooting braked and bare muzzle rifles for many years now. Recently he's been toying with true magnum calibers, in order to be competitive at ELR distances -- as in 1400 to 2000-ish yards. Concussion of the bigger rifles seems to be taking a toll on his hearing. Tinnitus seems to be rearing its really ugly head. The effects appear to be affecting his daily health, in more ways than just ringing ears. A few of us with extra suppressors are loaning them to him for matches until he gets ones of his own. But in the meantime he's cutting way back on his shooting, because he's smart enough to know what good health means. I will let him provide details if and when he's ready.

Ringing in my ears started soon after I began competing in sporting clays. I don't know of a single Master Class clays shooter who doesn't have some level of hearing loss. IMO braked precision rifles are even louder than shotguns, although I was subject to more shots per day in clays competitions than in rifle matches.

This is a primary reason I bought suppressors for carbines and precision rifles. As I sit here typing away, my ears are ringing a bit.

Our personal choices have personal effects. SBRs are just one of those choices.
 
Posts: 5312 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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