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20 gauge Mossberg Shockwave Login/Join 
Throwin sparks
makin knives
Picture of sybo
posted
Had some play time with a 12 gauge and it was cool but a bit of a handful with buckshot. Anybody played with the 20? Actually will pick mine up today. There is something........ well.......neat about this. Anyone else care to share about your opinions? Toy or tool? Big Grin
 
Posts: 5033 | Location: Nashville Tn | Registered: October 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unknown
Stuntman
Picture of bionic218
posted Hide Post
I think they have a definite use. There's precious few defensive weapons that could deliver that payload with that effect in close quarters.

It's certainly not a do-all weapon, and certainly not as effective as a shoulder fired variant, but then again, a shoulder fired variant won't fit nicely under or behind the seat of my truck. Wink
 
Posts: 10085 | Location: missouri | Registered: October 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.


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Posts: 7217 | Location: One step ahead of you | Registered: February 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's not you,
it's me.
Picture of RAMIUS
posted Hide Post
I just want one. In 12 Gauge though.

The price isn't so bad for the crazy little thing either.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Be unpredictable at times. Only boring, dull-witted people never stray from the path. - Para

Totus Tuus

 
Posts: 5201 | Location: Philadelphia, Pa | Registered: September 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
addicted to trailing-throttle oversteer
Picture of soggy_spinout
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.

Any such modification changes it from 'firearm' to something else (AOW? Pistol?); that would be a definitely a no-no in the eyes of the ATF. One key point of Mossberg's Shockwave submittal for AFT review is that the bird's head grip is to be configured to be 'non-removable' in order to maintain the 'firearm' designation that the Shockwave (and Remington's TAC-14) has. If one submitted that brace config to ATF, I'm sure that they could come back saying that it's a pistol but that it has to be manufactured in that configuration from the beginning, and not a modification using a different classification of weapon as the starting point. At least not without going through the tax stamp process assuming that in their eyes that's even permitted.
 
Posts: 8661 | Location: Drippin' wet | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Press hard,
Three copies
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by soggy_spinout:
quote:
Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.
Any such modification changes it from 'firearm' to something else (AOW? Pistol?); that would be a definitely a no-no in the eyes of the ATF. One key point of Mossberg's Shockwave submittal for AFT review is that the bird's head grip is to be configured to be 'non-removable' in order to maintain the 'firearm' designation that the Shockwave (and Remington's TAC-14) has. If one submitted that brace config to ATF, I'm sure that they could come back saying that it's a pistol but that it has to be manufactured in that configuration from the beginning, and not a modification using a different classification of weapon as the starting point. At least not without going through the tax stamp process assuming that in their eyes that's even permitted.


Nope.

MODEL 870 TAC-14 ARM BRACE

If they can sell it from the factory we can roll our own. Show them how stupid these laws are.

It handles great.



A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."
 
Posts: 2055 | Location: VA | Registered: June 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Sgt Neutron
posted Hide Post
So is the Shockwave officially classified as a pistol? If so, it would be interesting to have one as a "Special situation" concealed carry handgun. Andrews custom leather offers the Firepower rig:

http://www.andrewsleather.com/traditional.htm

 
Posts: 1359 | Location: Washington (State) | Registered: August 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Press hard,
Three copies
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sgt Neutron:
So is the Shockwave officially classified as a pistol?


No, it’s a “Firearm”. Not a pistol, shotgun etc. More stupidity but we can make it work.



A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."
 
Posts: 2055 | Location: VA | Registered: June 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of highlander81
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by soggy_spinout:
quote:
Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.

One key point of Mossberg's Shockwave submittal for AFT review is that the bird's head grip is to be configured to be 'non-removable'


Anyone know more about the non removable part? When I look at the exploded parts diagram for a shockwave, it appears the birds head grip is held in place by a standard stock bolt with washer.
 
Posts: 411 | Location: Southern Alberta, Canada | Registered: April 17, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Telecom Ronin
Picture of dewhorse
posted Hide Post
I bought the 20ga not sure why.....but with #1 loaded I feel confident in its ability to stop someone.

I like the brace idea
 
Posts: 6795 | Location: Back in DFW ....hopefully to stay | Registered: February 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Rustpot
posted Hide Post
I like the birdshead Mossberg, but I'll likely get a braced 870 for the safety location.

And then shoot a 3gun match with it.

If Remington makes a braced 20gauge version I'll be the first in line. I think with a brace and the light weight the 20 would be a ton of fun and not nearly as much punishment as the 12. Next time I'm in the gun shop it's going to be hard to pass if they have a 20ga Mossberg.
 
Posts: 5588 | Location: Romeo, MI | Registered: January 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Glorious SPAM!
Picture of mbinky
posted Hide Post
I've been looking at the 20ga, such a cool little gun. I just read that Mossberg offers it in 410 also.
 
Posts: 8530 | Registered: June 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Armed and Gregarious
Picture of DMF
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by soggy_spinout:
quote:
Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.

Any such modification changes it from 'firearm' to something else (AOW? Pistol?); that would be a definitely a no-no in the eyes of the ATF. One key point of Mossberg's Shockwave submittal for AFT review is that the bird's head grip is to be configured to be 'non-removable' in order to maintain the 'firearm' designation that the Shockwave (and Remington's TAC-14) has. If one submitted that brace config to ATF, I'm sure that they could come back saying that it's a pistol but that it has to be manufactured in that configuration from the beginning, and not a modification using a different classification of weapon as the starting point. At least not without going through the tax stamp process assuming that in their eyes that's even permitted.
Got a citation to back that claim up?

I eagerly await one, if you have one.


___________________________________________
"He was never hindered by any dogma, except the Constitution." - Ty Ross speaking of his grandfather General Barry Goldwater

"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." - William Tecumseh Sherman
 
Posts: 12402 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Armed and Gregarious
Picture of DMF
posted Hide Post
Well, I am bored tonight, and decided to look up the letter from ATF, giving an opinion on the classification of the Mossberg "Shockwave."

Here it is:
http://www.mossberg.com/wp-con...-from-ATF-3-2-17.pdf

Care to point out where the ATF letter says what you claim?

I'll give you a hint. It doesn't

How about not making stuff up out of whole cloth next time?

Roll Eyes


___________________________________________
"He was never hindered by any dogma, except the Constitution." - Ty Ross speaking of his grandfather General Barry Goldwater

"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." - William Tecumseh Sherman
 
Posts: 12402 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
...and now here's Al
with the Weather.
Picture of guardianangel762
posted Hide Post
I got one, compared to my SBR it really doesn't there's a certain amount of clumsiness to them that I don't like. Compared to my Mossberg 500 shotgun it is slow and difficult to aim. Too big to carry concealed, slow to deploy, slow to fire twice...

It's great for snakes while you are fishing...


___________________________________________________
But then of course I might be a 13 year old girl who reads alot of gun magazines, so feel free to disregard anything I post.
 
Posts: 8981 | Location: Lake Stevens, WA | Registered: March 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sgt Neutron:
If so, it would be interesting to have one as a "Special situation" concealed carry handgun. Andrews custom leather offers the Firepower rig:


Only if you rock the '80s "cop 'stache", pager, and Aviator glasses as well.

 
Posts: 21422 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
addicted to trailing-throttle oversteer
Picture of soggy_spinout
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ceptor781:
quote:
Originally posted by soggy_spinout:
quote:
Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.
Any such modification changes it from 'firearm' to something else (AOW? Pistol?); that would be a definitely a no-no in the eyes of the ATF. One key point of Mossberg's Shockwave submittal for AFT review is that the bird's head grip is to be configured to be 'non-removable' in order to maintain the 'firearm' designation that the Shockwave (and Remington's TAC-14) has. If one submitted that brace config to ATF, I'm sure that they could come back saying that it's a pistol but that it has to be manufactured in that configuration from the beginning, and not a modification using a different classification of weapon as the starting point. At least not without going through the tax stamp process assuming that in their eyes that's even permitted.


Nope.

MODEL 870 TAC-14 ARM BRACE

If they can sell it from the factory we can roll our own. Show them how stupid these laws are.

It handles great.

I forgot I posted to this thread.

Unless Remington submitted a new request to ATF, then the following excerpts apply (from the original AFT determination letter to Mossberg, dated March 2, 2017:



etc., etc.,







I had to image clip from the PDF of the letter. My PDF editor would only see this file as 4 pages of images.

The last image I think says it all. Change any of those listed characteristics on the submitted firearm, and ATF will review it to see if their determination is still valid. So since the bird's head grip is on the list, Remington has to go back to ATF to get a further ruling to see if the 'firearm' classification is still valid. To date I haven't heard if they've actually done this. If they have then great, a pistol grip and brace modification is kosher. If not, well...
 
Posts: 8661 | Location: Drippin' wet | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
That rug really tied
the room together.
Picture of bubbatime
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.


I'd be careful with the side folders at the moment. ATF raided a shop and has been confiscating all their inventory AND side folders previously sold to customers. Seems the agents are changing their long standing interpretation all will nilly like, and now measuring the guns with the stocks folded instead of extended.

As to arm braces, I just bought this. Its a factory configuration sold by Remington.



Crazy good deal here:
https://www.kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=128618


______________________________________________________
Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow
 
Posts: 4910 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bubbatime:
quote:
Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.


I'd be careful with the side folders at the moment. ATF raided a shop and has been confiscating all their inventory AND side folders previously sold to customers. Seems the agents are changing their long standing interpretation all will nilly like, and now measuring the guns with the stocks folded instead of extended.

As to arm braces, I just bought this. Its a factory configuration sold by Remington.



Crazy good deal here:
https://www.kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=128618


Have alink for the confiscation or a link whee the ATF changed their mind measuring things?


^^^^^unheard of deal on that one...wish it was a Mossberg


________________________________
 
Posts: 7217 | Location: One step ahead of you | Registered: February 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by soggy_spinout:
quote:
Originally posted by ceptor781:
quote:
Originally posted by soggy_spinout:
quote:
Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.
Any such modification changes it from 'firearm' to something else (AOW? Pistol?); that would be a definitely a no-no in the eyes of the ATF. One key point of Mossberg's Shockwave submittal for AFT review is that the bird's head grip is to be configured to be 'non-removable' in order to maintain the 'firearm' designation that the Shockwave (and Remington's TAC-14) has. If one submitted that brace config to ATF, I'm sure that they could come back saying that it's a pistol but that it has to be manufactured in that configuration from the beginning, and not a modification using a different classification of weapon as the starting point. At least not without going through the tax stamp process assuming that in their eyes that's even permitted.


Nope.

MODEL 870 TAC-14 ARM BRACE

If they can sell it from the factory we can roll our own. Show them how stupid these laws are.

It handles great.

I forgot I posted to this thread.

Unless Remington submitted a new request to ATF, then the following excerpts apply (from the original AFT determination letter to Mossberg, dated March 2, 2017:



etc., etc.,



I had to image clip from the PDF of the letter. My PDF editor would only see this file as 4 pages of images.

The last image I think says it all. Change any of those listed characteristics on the submitted firearm, and ATF will review it to see if their determination is still valid. So since the bird's head grip is on the list, Remington has to go back to ATF to get a further ruling to see if the 'firearm' classification is still valid. To date I haven't heard if they've actually done this. If they have then great, a pistol grip and brace modification is kosher. If not, well...


I beleive they specifically named the birdshead grip because thats what made it over 26in long. I beleive the pistol grip conversions are also the same length as the birdshead grip , still adhering to the Pistol Grip Only Firearm which its classifed as. I havent found any letter, but I imagine Remington, Mossberg or SB would have confirmed before inversting the money.

" If, at the factory, a brand-new receiver is fitted with a pistol grip first instead of a shoulder stock, it's considered a Pistol Grip Only (PGO) firearm. If the overall length of that firearm, with the pistol grip and barrel installed, is greater than 26", then the barrel can legally be shorter than 18". In the case of the 14" barrel Mossberg 590 Shockwave, the Raptor bird's head grip gives the gun an overall length of 26.32". That makes it a firearm."



ETA: Upon closer inspection, it doesn't look like the Mesa PG conversion grip is equal in length to the birds head grip, one can only assume at this point the ATF views the Pistol grip, adapter and brace as 1 unit when its clearly comprised of 4 main components. The pistol grip, adpater, brace and tube


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Posts: 7217 | Location: One step ahead of you | Registered: February 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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