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Astigmatism and Dots (Aimpoint, EO Tech, and Trijicon RMR) Login/Join 
Bone 4 Tuna
Picture of jjkroll32
posted
Currently have 2moa Aimpoints on my preferred AR carbines. They tend to work pretty well at my typical shooting distances, even with the bloom of astigmatism.

I was peering through my shooting partner's EO tech that he's testing out and it was a blooming fuzzy mess.

I've been toying with the idea of putting an RMR on an AR Pistol build, or having a Glock slide milled out like all the cool kids on the block are doing.


Anyone out there with astigmatism have experience with the RMR? Will I have the same issues that I do with the EO Techs? No local shops have RMRs in stock, otherwise I'd be peering through.

Thanks folks.


_________________________
An unarmed man can only flee from evil and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it. - Col Jeff Cooper

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Long Live the Super Thirty-Eight
 
Posts: 10709 | Location: Mid-Michigan | Registered: October 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
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Following with interest.
 
Posts: 22474 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Rustpot
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I have a few Aimpoints. PRO, H-1, M2. I have an astigmatism and all of them are varying degrees of bloom. Much better when I'm out in the daylight focusing on a target at some distance. Never a super-perfect perfect dot as seen in photos except when viewed through the aperture of the rear sight, but certainly usable and not enough distortion to make me want to replace them. I have some etched-glass optics (ACOG, Accupoint, other scopes) which are, of course, sharp and well-defined even when illuminated too brightly with some bloom over the visible edge of the reticle.

I've had a similar experience with the EOTech sights, just a giant fuzzy caterpillar looking ring. I have looked through other optics (I believe it was a Sig Romeo micro-style) with the EOTech style of reticle and they were very usable.

I have an RMR RM06 Type1, 3.25MOA dot with the big rubber +/- buttons on either side. I would say it is very similar to the Aimpoint in how I see it. It's a dot, if I focus on the dot it's a bit of a crooked starburst. As with the Aimpoint when focusing on the target, and even more so in good light outdoors, it works well and is more of a defined dot.

I have looked though a triangle RMR at a gun shop, but I don't recall if it was sharp or not.

I also have a Sig Romeo equivalent on an Rx 320. It's also a similar behavior to the RMR and Aimpoint.

If you're over near Detroit, I have my RMR on a 9mm AR at the moment you're welcome to look at or shoot.
 
Posts: 5595 | Location: Romeo, MI | Registered: January 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hop head
Picture of lyman
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I have 'mild' astigmatism (according to my eye doc)

all dots, no matter who makes them, look like * to me,
as in a small fuzzy dot,

only exception is some vintage single point type stuff,

even the primary arms RDS I have with non dot reticles are a bit fuzzy,



www.chesterfieldarmament.com
 
Posts: 7126 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Age Quod Agis
Picture of ArtieS
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I have astigmatism as well. On a zero magnification red dot, play with the eye relief. I find that further from my eye, I get less bloom, and a more defined dot. You don't have to go all the way out to "scout scope" distance, but in my experience it helps. In addition, when the red dot is further from your eye, the 3MOA dot is "smaller" relative to your target, and therefore, relatively more precise.

If you like a magnified optic, the Burris AR 332 Prism is also excellent, although a bit heavy. It has the additional benefit of of having both green and red reticles, or plain black with equal functionality if your battery goes dead.

None of these will break the bank, either.

Also try shooting the red dot with polarized sun glasses. The polarization will filter out some of the off axis light rays that contribute to the bloom.

Also try a bunch of different brands. I find that some bloom less than others. I have had particularly good luck with the relatively inexpensive Bushnell TRS 25. The SIG Romeo 3 and Vortex Venom 3 MOA are also pretty good if you prefer a holographic style.

I have the AR 332 on my Sig M-400, the Romeo 3 on a 9mm AR, and the Bushnell on my .35 Rem. Marlin lever gun for pigs. I have also shot with, but do not own, the Vortex Venom, and AimPoint PRO.

Good luck.



"We may consent to be governed, but we will not be ruled." - Kevin D. Williamson, 2012

"All the citizens of this land are of right freemen; they owe no allegiance to any class and should recognize no task-masters. Under the chart of their liberties, under the law of high heaven, they are free and without shackles on their limbs nor mortgages upon the fruits of their brain or muscles; they bow down before no prince, potentate, or sovereign, nor kiss the royal robes of any crowned head; they render homage only to their God and should pay tribute only to their Government. Such at least is the spirit of our institutions, the character of our written national compact."

Charles Triplett O’Ferrall of Virginia - In Congress, May 1, 1888
 
Posts: 9511 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: November 02, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bone 4 Tuna
Picture of jjkroll32
posted Hide Post
My thanks to all.

As further digging indicates and as advice has shown, smaller dot is better. I have mine also mounted in a forward/ semi-cantilever position.

The dot also cleans up when looking through a rear aperture with absolute- cowitnessed iron sights.

When I get around to it, it'll probably be a 3.25MOA RMR type 2. But it also begs switching things up even further and trying my hand with a low power variable.

Decisions decisions decisions.


_________________________
An unarmed man can only flee from evil and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it. - Col Jeff Cooper

NRA Life Member

Long Live the Super Thirty-Eight
 
Posts: 10709 | Location: Mid-Michigan | Registered: October 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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Practically all red dot sights are useless to me. A prism optic is as close as I can get and they do a great job. When the reticle is illuminated I don't see any distortion or flare at all.


No one's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session.- Mark Twain
 
Posts: 2141 | Location: TX | Registered: October 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
certified biohazard
Picture of mew
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I too suffer from this affliction. My only choice is to run on the lowest power I can still see the dot as brightness increases the bloom but it works for me.....


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
Edmund Burke
 
Posts: 469 | Location: Florida | Registered: February 18, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of powermad
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I always thought the cheapo red dots were the issue.

I recently put a Sig Romeo5 and Juliet 4x magnifier on my AR15 and was more than a little disappointed with that.
Almost unusable unless I flip up the rear sight to look through the aperture as well.

So now it looks like a prism 1x is my only option for a RD style optic.
As I find I need magnification as well I ordered a Primary Arms 1x6 ACSS scope.
I have a PA 1x8 ACSS on my .308 AR and like it a lot.

Looks like I'll be doing a pistol build next and putting a PA 1x ACSS prism scope on it for short distance.
 
Posts: 142 | Location: Portland Oregon | Registered: October 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Something I’ll mention to everyone.

Although I don’t have astigmatism myself, I have experienced what others have described: the misshapen red dots or other projected reticles of EOTechs, Aimpoints, etc. The reason? Cheap protective glasses. The optical quality of the $9.95 glasses often handed out for free at industrial sites is good enough for normal viewing and tasks, but may distort a red dot. If you haven’t checked your sight without your usual eye protection, I suggest you do so. Even if you have astigmatism, your glasses may be making it worse, and you might benefit from a higher quality pair.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38750 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of trickedtrix
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I suffer from the same ocular issue - I've tried just about every type of optic and honestly the best red dot for me is a green one. I bought a vortex strikefire that can be red or green for my S&W M&P22 and love it so much I put them on several rifles. I have aimpoints that are no where near as clear as that green dot. Maybe its just me, but that optic is a winner!



*Handguns are fine, Shotguns are final
 
Posts: 1182 | Location: IL | Registered: August 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Our eyes are more sensitive to green than red, so that may help with clarity.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38750 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of powermad
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
Something I’ll mention to everyone.

Although I don’t have astigmatism myself, I have experienced what others have described: the misshapen red dots or other projected reticles of EOTechs, Aimpoints, etc. The reason? Cheap protective glasses. The optical quality of the $9.95 glasses often handed out for free at industrial sites is good enough for normal viewing and tasks, but may distort a red dot. If you haven’t checked your sight without your usual eye protection, I suggest you do so. Even if you have astigmatism, your glasses may be making it worse, and you might benefit from a higher quality pair.


Anything that distorts the dot will effect it.
I have tried several sets of glasses.

For me..
Work bifocals with no coatings just plastic lens is the worst.
Varilux progressive lens is a bit better.
Oakley single vision lens is about the same.
Oakley single vision polarized sunglasses give the best dot image for me.
 
Posts: 142 | Location: Portland Oregon | Registered: October 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of blfuller
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Prism sights like the PA Cyclops and the Vortex Spitfire work really well for people with astigmatism. Not as much flare around the dots since they are etched onto the internal lens.
 
Posts: 200 | Location: Eastern Washington State (dry side) | Registered: May 19, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of powermad
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I should have just went this route to begin with.


Sit's low, isn't to heavy and I can clearly see the chevron with both eyes open on 1x.

Definitely going with the PA compact 1x on a pistol build.

Hoping to get out Sunday, sight it in and beat on a plate.
 
Posts: 142 | Location: Portland Oregon | Registered: October 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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I've got astigmatism too. Interesstingly, I see the dot on my Trijicon RMR not as fuzzy as on my aimpoints.
It usually helps a little bit when I set the illumination down. But finally, I bought a S&B Short dot for my rifle to solve the problem.
 
Posts: 68 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: October 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hmm, well that suscks. I read somewhere that holo sight help solve bloom for astigmatism.
There goes my desire for spending 500 clams on an xps3-2
 
Posts: 4652 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
Something I’ll mention to everyone.

Although I don’t have astigmatism myself, I have experienced what others have described: the misshapen red dots or other projected reticles of EOTechs, Aimpoints, etc. The reason? Cheap protective glasses. The optical quality of the $9.95 glasses often handed out for free at industrial sites is good enough for normal viewing and tasks, but may distort a red dot. If you haven’t checked your sight without your usual eye protection, I suggest you do so. Even if you have astigmatism, your glasses may be making it worse, and you might benefit from a higher quality pair.


Yep, check the safety glasses you’re wearing.
I’ve found that any set of glasses with the “curved out” lenses throws everything off and bloom the red dot at damn near any setting.
I use my computer glasses (about a +1)that have a flat, straight lens and this works well.






------------------------------
Wales: "You a bounty hunter?"
B.H.: "A man's got to do something for a living."
Wales: "Dying ain't much of a living, boy."
 
Posts: 475 | Location: FL | Registered: September 19, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of shoevb
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I will echo what some of you have already said. My red dots and EOtechs are fuzzy. The Vortex Strikefire is clear as a bell for me in green. I added their magnifier and it is extremely clear. I also have found prism scopes such as the Burris 556 and Steiner Prism scope work well for me. I bought a Sig Romeo 5 and a Juliet 4 and they are too fuzzy for me. Nice optics, but just don't work for me.
 
Posts: 782 | Location: Virginia Beach, VA | Registered: February 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I have astigmatism. I bought the Leupold patrol
scope. I see the firedot as a crisp red dot.
If your gunshop has one have a look
 
Posts: 68 | Location: mason, ohio | Registered: September 16, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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