quote:

Originally posted by MrMcGoo:
My limited understanding of the Wylde chamber is that its purpose is to increase accuracy and it uses a shortened throat. The shortened throat can result in increased pressure, especially when the bullet contacts the lands prior to firing.

Hence overall length of the ammo would be of interest.

Hornady lists OAL for .223 as 2.260 while 5.56 is listed as 2.250.

Bill

223 Wylde if properly done is safe with both 5.56 and SAAMI 223.

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:

quote:

Originally posted by myrottiety:

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:
I might have missed it but when you say "failure to eject," does that mean the case stayed in the chamber hand the extractor jumped over the rim?

Not even. Like just locked up in the chamber. To eject spent shell had to mortar the gun. Didn't try to double feed so I can only assume the BCG didn't move at all.

Now your comment about the BCG not moving is making more sense. It appears that you have under powered ammo. I've actually seen this happen in real time. In some cases the BCG doesn't make it far enough back to fully extract the empty shell and it ends up rechambering the empty.

Except popped primers and brass flow into the ejector hole doesn't indicate underpowered ammo.


I'm honestly not sure what's going on. Need a more detailed breakdown of how the malfunctions transpired.

There may be more than one bullet in that bore.... but if that is the case it should have kaboomed.... maybe one of them stopped beyond the gas port and allowed enough relief to fire another......

This is getting stranger and stranger, with nothing making any sense.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:

This is getting stranger and stranger, with nothing making any sense.

Agreed. I'm very curious to see what he finds in the bore.

I would also be curious to see the Lot # of that ammo if the OP can obtain it.

To "Mortar" it would mean a stuck round or case that wont eject with standard arm strength?

Tabletops, feet and GI techniques have worked for me in the past.

I've seen bad chambers and improperly re-sized handloads both do this. You are shooting factory stuff so that leads me to believe that there is a chamber related issue here.

Low pressured rounds are notorius for primer back-out. Higher pressure causes the primer to pop out all the way sometimes. Considering the marks on that brass, I'd say somewhere there was a high pressure incident.

A chamber or sizing issue with the ammo would probably prevent the round from fully chambering in the first place.

When it comes to the buffer and timing stuff, I'm waiting for more folks to chime in.

This is a great thread to follow.

quote:

Originally posted by jackimoe:
To "Mortar" it would mean a stuck round or case that wont eject with standard arm strength?

Yes, although the term “mortaring” annoys me* and I call it a vertical butt strike: The butt of the rifle is driven straight onto the ground with the barrel straight up and I try to add a little extra force by pulling down on the charging handle at the same time. I’ve used the method several times with good success, but if it doesn’t work, then I move to other techniques. One advantage to the method that I mention to students is that it doesn’t require standing up or the convenient availability of something like the corner of a brick wall to press the charging handle back.

The technique also works with shotguns.

* Whoever dreamed up the term had more imagination than knowledge about mortars.

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:

This is getting stranger and stranger, with nothing making any sense.

Agreed. I'm very curious to see what he finds in the bore.

I would also be curious to see the Lot # of that ammo if the OP can obtain it.

Lot number and photo

Here’s a lot number phot right on the case.

My money is on a "tight", "short" or dirty chamber and a long or hot round. The head stamp and crimped primer pocket leads me to think that it's 5.56mm brass which if I recall correctly has a slightly longer neck. If that neck impacts the rifling or a tighter portion of the chamber than it should, it'll retard the releasing of the bullet and cause a pressure spike, manifesting in the popped primers, casehead flow and the failure to extract. "tight" or "short" chambers can be a result of worn tooling or a manufacturing mistake. If it is in fact a tight or short chamber than Decker's recommendation would fix it.

I'd be interested to know if the rifle passes go and no go headspace gauging as it is right now.

I'll state the obvious:

For your safety, I recommend deadlining the upper and the ammo and contacting both vendors. Let the pros take a look, you might lose your rifle for a bit, but its better than a kaboom.

quote:

Originally posted by myrottiety:
Remembered I actually had a case I grabbed off ground. It's a FC marked head stamp. Here's a photo for you guys to diagnose.

I can't tell from this photo, but is there any indication of the extractor riding over the rim of the cartridge? Everything in this says too much pressure, but I've never seen that condition without some damage to the rim.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:

quote:

Originally posted by myrottiety:
Remembered I actually had a case I grabbed off ground. It's a FC marked head stamp. Here's a photo for you guys to diagnose.

I can't tell from this photo, but is there any indication of the extractor riding over the rim of the cartridge? Everything in this says too much pressure, but I've never seen that condition without some damage to the rim.

If he had a stuck bullet in the bore between the chamber and the gas block, it is possible that the gas never made it to the gas port to cycle the rifle.

This should have resulted in a kaboom but it is possible that the rifle held together.

At this point it's a mystery until he gets the bore cleared.

quote:

Originally posted by MrMcGoo:
My limited understanding of the Wylde chamber is that its purpose is to increase accuracy and it uses a shortened throat. The shortened throat can result in increased pressure, especially when the bullet contacts the lands prior to firing.

Hence overall length of the ammo would be of interest.

Hornady lists OAL for .223 as 2.260 while 5.56 is listed as 2.250.

Bill

That is completely incorrect. The Wylde chamber is one where the chamber itself is a little more generous than the regular .223 chamber to allow reliable cycling of the ammo but where the neck and leade are very tight and the leade is longer than the .223 Rem to allow the chambering of long bullets. Remember that the Wylde chamber was developed by a competitive shooter for competition purposes. Competition shooters use a lot of 80grain bullets and these are very long. The little short 55gr could not be seated to reach the lands and if it could it would not fit in the magazine.

All my ARs have Wylde chambers or their manufacturers equivalent, all except for one which has the Krieger hybrid chamber with a very tight chamber, neck and leade and a very long leade to accept the 80gr bullets I use.

Until such time as we get a comprehensive recap of exactly what happened and in what sequence, we are all guessing.

I take you back to the OP which states:

quote:

Issues I was having was poped primers and some failure to eject. Had to mortar the rifle a couple of times. Primers were getting into the action and jamming it up a bit.

This leads me to believe it was not a one time occurrence. Some rounds fired and cycled properly, others didn't and the OP mortared them. The last one left a bullet in the bore. Did he just stop because he was tired of mortaring? Just plain lucky?

Did all primer pop off or only a few? Did the last one pop or not?

So many questions begging for answers.

Round cam out with 2 light taps. It was barely engaged with the rifleing. Chamber was beyond nasty!

Lesson learned. None of that ammo for that rifle. I’ll feed it to SBR.

Was the bullet clean or did it have burnt stuff at the bottom.

quote:

Originally posted by myrottiety:
Round cam out with 2 light taps. It was barely engaged with the rifleing. Chamber was beyond nasty!

Lesson learned. None of that ammo for that rifle. I’ll feed it to SBR.

I'd still recommend sending a note to the vendors and gauging the headspace.

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:
Was the bullet clean or did it have burnt stuff at the bottom.

The round was dirtier on the nose than it was on the back end. On the bottom half it was stupid clean.