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PS 90 use by the USSS: Why?

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August 07, 2019, 09:05 PM
craigcpa
PS 90 use by the USSS: Why?
With the USSS changing of pistols LINK, I was wondering about their initial choice of using the PS90 as a personal protection weapon.

Anyone care to venture what the rational for adopting the 5.7 /PS90?


==========================================
Just my 2¢
____________________________

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right ♫♫♫
August 07, 2019, 09:14 PM
cslinger
I can only guess it’s due to a combination of extremely compact/concealable proportions combined with a lot of firepower.

I suspect the presidential detail is primarily concerned with getting potus out of dodge so ballistics may matter less then suppression (suppressing fire/not noise mitigation). A couple dudes with P90s have 100 armor piercing rounds on tap.

Only a guess.


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
August 07, 2019, 09:22 PM
PGT
They used to use Uzi's; the move to the P90 increased lethality against armor and mag capacity, not to mention controllability. Concealibity, round count and short engagement distances for the PPD. Uniformed officers use M4's.
August 07, 2019, 09:35 PM
jljones
Yep, all the above. It’s just a PDW and nothing more. CAT Teams have plenty of higher caliber weapons on hand to supplement the agents carrying P90.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



August 08, 2019, 08:34 PM
MattW
Not much to add, other than the fact to this day it’s one of my favorite rifles. It’s not my go to if the poop hits the fan, but it is stupid fun. I’ve had my Form 1 back for a few years now, really need to get around to having it engraved and putting the “correct” barrel on it.
August 08, 2019, 09:33 PM
Wreckless
SBR that PS90. It is so much more fun I did it to both of mine.


La Dolce Vita
August 08, 2019, 09:54 PM
craigcpa
quote:
Originally posted by Wreckless:
SBR that PS90. It is so much more fun I did it to both of mine.


Does a regular .22 can work on the round?


==========================================
Just my 2¢
____________________________

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right ♫♫♫
August 08, 2019, 10:24 PM
LDD
quote:
Originally posted by craigcpa:
quote:
Originally posted by Wreckless:
SBR that PS90. It is so much more fun I did it to both of mine.


Does a regular .22 can work on the round?


5.7 > 5.56 = 223 > .22

If the can is strictly built for .22, then no, for two reasons: bore diameter and .22 only cans tend to be of too light a construction to handle the higher pressure 5.7 round.

The PS90 would probably make a relatively poor self-defense choice given other available alternatives. A true P90, on full auto is a different story.
August 09, 2019, 01:41 PM
craigcpa
quote:
Originally posted by LDD:
quote:
Originally posted by craigcpa:
quote:
Originally posted by Wreckless:
SBR that PS90. It is so much more fun I did it to both of mine.


Does a regular .22 can work on the round?


5.7 > 5.56 = 223 > .22

If the can is strictly built for .22, then no, for two reasons: bore diameter and .22 only cans tend to be of too light a construction to handle the higher pressure 5.7 round.

The PS90 would probably make a relatively poor self-defense choice given other available alternatives. A true P90, on full auto is a different story.


So, I'm dense, but a dedicated.223 can would also not be a viable option?


==========================================
Just my 2¢
____________________________

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right ♫♫♫
August 09, 2019, 01:53 PM
ArtieS
Bullet diameter in both rounds is 5.7mm or .224 inch, but the FN round is lighter, usually 28 to 31 grains. As the bullet diameter is the same, a .223 can should work.



"We may consent to be governed, but we will not be ruled." - Kevin D. Williamson, 2012

"All the citizens of this land are of right freemen; they owe no allegiance to any class and should recognize no task-masters. Under the chart of their liberties, under the law of high heaven, they are free and without shackles on their limbs nor mortgages upon the fruits of their brain or muscles; they bow down before no prince, potentate, or sovereign, nor kiss the royal robes of any crowned head; they render homage only to their God and should pay tribute only to their Government. Such at least is the spirit of our institutions, the character of our written national compact."

Charles Triplett O’Ferrall of Virginia - In Congress, May 1, 1888
August 09, 2019, 02:16 PM
Dwill104
quote:
Originally posted by craigcpa:
quote:
Originally posted by Wreckless:
SBR that PS90. It is so much more fun I did it to both of mine.


Does a regular .22 can work on the round?


Depends on the can. Some are full auto rated and are made of heavier materials, like stainless steel instead of aluminum. I know my Rugged Oculus 22 is rated for 5.7.
August 09, 2019, 05:06 PM
jcsabolt2
quote:
Originally posted by craigcpa:
quote:
Originally posted by Wreckless:
SBR that PS90. It is so much more fun I did it to both of mine.


Does a regular .22 can work on the round?


Silencerco Sparrow and Spectre are both rated for 5.7x28 FN as is the Tactical Solution Axiom. Here's a whole list from the Silencer Shop for that caliber.


----------
“Nobody can ever take your integrity away from you. Only you can give up your integrity.” H. Norman Schwarzkopf
August 09, 2019, 05:39 PM
LDD
quote:
Originally posted by craigcpa:
quote:
Originally posted by LDD:
quote:
Originally posted by craigcpa:
quote:
Originally posted by Wreckless:
SBR that PS90. It is so much more fun I did it to both of mine.


Does a regular .22 can work on the round?


5.7 > 5.56 = 223 > .22

If the can is strictly built for .22, then no, for two reasons: bore diameter and .22 only cans tend to be of too light a construction to handle the higher pressure 5.7 round.

The PS90 would probably make a relatively poor self-defense choice given other available alternatives. A true P90, on full auto is a different story.


So, I'm dense, but a dedicated.223 can would also not be a viable option?


A .223 can would likely work. A .22-only can, like my Silencerco Warlock, would not.
August 09, 2019, 10:08 PM
craigcpa
Thanks to all for your input.


==========================================
Just my 2¢
____________________________

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right ♫♫♫
August 10, 2019, 09:46 AM
kimberkid
I had a early PS90 for a while and bought a bunch of ammo, but the early ones had a poor optic, the outline in daytime was white which made it hard to see, it also had a (IIRC)black outline for low lite neither were great for anything except center of mass ... it was designed for fast shooting at close ranges. The white outline, T reticle (again IIRC) I cut a small piece of red plastic from a broken tail light to put in the window that illuminated the previously white outline red and it helped but it sat in the safe 99% of the time after the initial new-ness wore off. Later they came out with an improved optic and later still one with a picatinny rail ... the latter is better for adding your prefered optic, I haven't followed to see if they have come out with any later generations.

Then one day while perusing GB I came across a 5.7 AR upper cheap and bought it but like the PS90 it was "meh" ... then a year or so later, I'd heard about a full-auto bolt for it but they had been discontinued ... Went to GB and created a saved search for one and it finally popped up.

I had the 16" barrel cut down to 8" and it threaded. My 22 suppressor (FA rated) fit in the monolithic handguard and only protrudes about an inch, or I can use the 5.5" M-4 flash-hider. On my M16 lower its easily controllable ... and the fun is back!


Sometimes I use my 3-shot burst on the M16 lower but I still haven't tried it on one of my binary trigger SBR lowers ... I need to do that.


If you really want something you'll find a way ...
... if you don't you'll find an excuse.

I'm really not a "kid" anymore ... but I haven't grown up yet either Wink
August 10, 2019, 05:03 PM
HCM
quote:
Originally posted by craigcpa:
With the USSS changing of pistols LINK, I was wondering about their initial choice of using the PS90 as a personal protection weapon.

Anyone care to venture what the rational for adopting the 5.7 /PS90?


The P90 was only in use by certain units within USSS (primarily Uniform Division ERT at the Whitehouse). It was adopted in the 1990s to supplement the MP-5s and provide a capability to penetrate soft body armor.

In the 1990s when the P90 was adopted rifle plates and short rifles were not yet as common as they are now.

With AP ammo, the 5.7 is good at what it was designed to do, penetrate soft body armor but the terminal effects are poor, equivalent to a .22 magnum. I’m not aware of any shooting by USSS with the P90. However, the Jacksonville FL and San Antonio, TX SWAT teams ran them for a while before dumping them due to their abysmal performance in actual shootings.

The USSS now uses 11.5” M4 carbines (KAC SR-16) for the same roles.
August 10, 2019, 05:05 PM
HCM
quote:
Originally posted by HCM:
quote:
Originally posted by craigcpa:
With the USSS changing of pistols LINK, I was wondering about their initial choice of using the PS90 as a personal protection weapon.

Anyone care to venture what the rational for adopting the 5.7 /PS90?


The P90 was only in use by certain units within USSS (primarily Uniform Division ERT at the Whitehouse). It was adopted in the 1990s to supplement the MP-5s and provide a capability to penetrate soft body armor.

In the 1990s when the P90 was adopted rifle plates and short rifles were not yet as common as they are now.

With AP ammo, the 5.7 is good at what it was designed to do, penetrate soft body armor but the terminal effects are poor, equivalent to a .22 magnum. I’m not aware of any shooting by USSS with the P90. However, the Jacksonville FL and San Antonio, TX SWAT teams ran them for a while before dumping them due to their abysmal performance in actual shootings.

The USSS now uses 11.5” M4 carbines (KAC SR-16) for the same roles.


The P90 itself is a great design and lots of fun to shoot. The caliber, however, is useless outside the niche role which the 5.56 does better.
August 10, 2019, 07:22 PM
kimberkid
quote:
Originally posted by HCM:
The P90 itself is a great design and lots of fun to shoot. The caliber, however, is useless outside the niche role which the 5.56 does better.

I do like the design, however it would be much more fun to shoot if ammo wasn't 60 cents a round, maybe chambered to shoot 22 mag? While they're at it perhaps improve the trigger like an AUG, the trigger packs are similar so it shouldn't be too hard to adapt the design ... and make it easier to SBR with say a faux suppressor pinned on.

Or, just make the mag wider and chamber it 5.56


If you really want something you'll find a way ...
... if you don't you'll find an excuse.

I'm really not a "kid" anymore ... but I haven't grown up yet either Wink
August 10, 2019, 09:05 PM
hrcjon
yea a blowback 5.56, that would be fun (not)...
I love my PS90 but the trigger (bad and not really fixable) and the optics mounting situation (OK with the aftermarket in terms of what you can mount but still with a silly height over bore) make it just a fun gun for me.
Ammo is the real killer in terms of using it a lot. It's now available, but as said its not cheap.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
August 23, 2019, 09:49 AM
1986s4
I've had an odd attraction the FN 5.7 pistol, but not the PS90, Not enough to get one though..