SIGforum.com Main Page Mason's Rifle Room Question for moving aerial target shooters (hunters, trap, skeet):
Main Page Mason's Rifle Room Question for moving aerial target shooters (hunters, trap, skeet):Page 1 2
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| Freethinker |
When engaging a flying target, do you establish a lead and swing the gun to maintain that lead until the gun discharges, or do you pick a fixed spot ahead of the target, stop and aim there, and then fire when the target gets to the required lead distance from that spot without moving the point of aim? The same question could be answered by hunters of rabbits or other small, fast-moving game. The two methods are called swinging lead and ambush. ► 6.4/93.6 “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato | ||
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Repressed |
Definitely swinging, and on really fast targets, I like to "swing through" or else I just never get out far enough ahead. A very good skeet and trap shooter once told me to treat a moving target as if I was going to squirt it with a garden hose. Using that advice as a corner stone has helped me break a lot of clays! -ShneaSIG Oh, by the way, which one's "Pink?" | |||
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| Lead slingin' Parrot Head  |
I'm replying from mostly clay shooting on moving targets and a little bird hunting experience. Due to the relative close proximity to the moving aerial targets and also the relatively quick time frame required to engage the target I swing lead through laterally moving targets. Targets moving generally away from me may allow for more of a hybrid "relaxed" swing lead into more of an ambush shot (target height and vector dependent), but it's largely an instinctive decision for me. | |||
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Caribou gorn |
butt-beak-bang. stop your gun, miss your target. I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log. | |||
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| Member |
Swing through is the one for me, this gives me a chance to determine speed and angle albeit this must be done quickly sometimes. As mentioned by MDS it IS instinctive shooting when hand, eye, and body work together without thinking or as I call it "snap shooting". Either way it sure is fun!! Welcome to my home, that door you just kicked in, was locked for your protection, not mine. | |||
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At Jacob's Well |
I'm probably one of the few that will answer "ambush" here. I don't shoot competitively or even very often, but I generally have very good success when I do. Ambush has always felt very natural to me. I can certainly see where it would be a disadvantage, particularly on more challenging targets and on multiple targets. Multiple targets is in fact where I seem to struggle the most, because ambush shooting generally takes a little more time. While I'm waiting on that first target to reach the ambush point, the second target is moving farther and farther away. I almost never miss the first bird, but I sometimes have to rush the second shot with predictable results. I know I'll have to switch methods if I want to be competitive at a higher level, but for shooting clays on the back 40 with my father in law, ambushing works just fine. J Rak Chazak Amats | |||
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| Member |
It depends on the shot. I do a lot of trap shooting. If the target is going directly away from me and only rising, sometimes I will use the ambush method and only stick the barrel an inch about the current targets location and firing. If the target is going out to the side, always lead it swinging the gun and the barrel has to be several inches in front of the target when firing. | |||
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Age Quod Agis |
Swing through on a crossing shot. I hunt dove, and I break the shot when the bead swings past the head of the target. YellowJackets butt-beak-bang is right on. I will take a fixed lead over a bird flying directly away low, but there really isn't any choice as there is no place to swing. "I vowed to myself to fight against evil more completely and more wholeheartedly than I ever did before. . . . That’s the only way to pay back part of that vast debt, to live up to and try to fulfill that tremendous obligation." Alfred Hornik, Sunday, December 2, 1945 to his family, on his continuing duty to others for surviving WW II. | |||
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"Member" |
I don't know. That's my best answer. When I start to think about which I'm doing, I start to miss. lol I'm in the "I just do it" column.  _____________________________________________________ Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911. | |||
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| Member |
Both birds and clays generally have better success with a swinging lead. Virtually every top shotgun instructor advocates a swinging lead. However, there are times when a stationary barrel (ambush or trapped target) makes more sense. - Specialized trap guns are designed to minimize the upward movement of the gun on straight away targets. The high POI of such shotguns almost make these guns setup for ambush. - On rare occasions in sporting clays, a target setter will design a station where gun movement is almost impossible. I've seen this most often where the clay goes straight up, then falls straight down. The majority of the clay's path can be visually blocked by trees, or the clay is thrown straight into the path of the sun. In these stations I generally aim close to the bottom of the clay's path, trying to break it just before it hits the ground. Very few people do well at such vertical stations; fewer still practice them. I've led clays in such stations with as much as 10-12 feet with a stationary barrel. Putting it in perspective, the largest lead in skeet with a moving barrel is around 3.5 to 4 feet. - Another instance of an ambush in sporting clays is when there's a rising, outgoing clay that cannot be effectively shot until it levels out. In these instances we point the gun at the expected apex of the clay's trajectory, and break the shot at the estimated time prior to the apex -- so the shot will arrive at the time and place of the clay's apex. | |||
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| Freethinker |
Whenever I post a poll like this I inevitably learn shortly after people start responding that something wasn’t clear in the question or conditions. This time I was thinking about engaging targets moving at some angle other than straight away from the shooter. For the latter, there obviously would not/could not be any sort of lateral swinging lead, but I appreciate everyone’s comments describing what they do in such situations. The responses thus far have not been unexpected, but it’s good to get confirmation. ► 6.4/93.6 “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato | |||
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| Caribou gorn |
I've always found the teal is easiest to break at its apex, though that shot is not always presented. Breaking him on the way down is a good bit harder because of the increasing speed. I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log. | |||
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| Member |
A few of the clubs in my neck of the woods are notorious for setting teals behind large cottonwood trees during large tournaments. Sometimes the apex shot is taken out of play. I've had to break teals both a few feet after being thrown and a few feet from the ground. The top clays shooter in the state told me to practice breaking clays anywhere in their arc, rather than just at the sweet spot. He stated that will take me from being just master class, to being master class that can win tournaments. | |||
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| Member |
I am not aware of any national-class skeet or sporting clays competitor who does not consistently use some sort of swinging lead method on lateral-moving clays. Sure, there are stages and presentations with exceptions, but the high-percentage hit is with a moving shotgun. | |||
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| Repressed |
If I can't get to a teal at the apex, then my next preference is to get it on the way up, swinging through as I break the shot. I feel like the speed and direction are more consistent on the ascent. The falling shot seems to be a lower-percentage play for me, even though I can see the target when I shoot. -ShneaSIG Oh, by the way, which one's "Pink?" | |||
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| Member |
+1 Another top master around here states it's best to hit a clay "in powered flight", meaning while rising from the power of the thrower. IMO this is especially true with battues, as their flight pattern generally gets pretty wonky once they slow and turn. When I first began competing I tended to "saddle up and ride the clay", meaning I often engaged clays on the way down. As I improved I got more and more comfortable taking the clays sooner in flight -- sometimes shortly off the throwing arm. I agree that if a teal can't be shot at the apex, the next option should be on the way up. | |||
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Res ipsa loquitur |
^^^^ This except I’ve never heard the squirt advice which makes sense. __________________________ | |||
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| Member |
In powered flight there movement is more consistent. Once they reach the top and level out I've seen the wind move the clays around erratically sometimes. In Trap the sooner in flight is the easiest because they're closer. | |||
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| Smarter than the average bear |
I've never heard of "ambush". I thought the two choices were "sustained lead" and "swing through". I was taught "sustained lead", for example, a 3 foot lead and matching the speed of the target, pull the trigger while maintaining the 3 foot lead. "Swing through" would be catching up to the target from behind, pulling the trigger when at the target, and continuing your swing "through" the trigger pull; ie. accelerating your swing throughout the process. I've never heard of "ambush" as being a viable option. | |||
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| Member |
Ambush is generally not the best solution to a moving clay. There's a club in southern Colorado that is located among large and thick stands of cottonwood trees. They occasionally set a target where one thrower is a long ways away -- at least 60-70 yards out. The target will be incoming, yet quartering away slightly. The flight path is alternately behind trees and in the open -- a bit hard to follow, and harder yet to time the shot in the open spaces between the trees. The clay is powered and vectored so that just after it peaks in height, it tends to drop almost straight down. Setting the clay flight direction into the prevailing breezes also helps. The best shot is generally to wait for the clay to peak in flight, then ambush it on its slow descent in an opening either between or beneath cottonwood branches. A fourth method is decreasing lead -- sort of the opposite of swing through. I've seen it taught at the OSP shooting school. I think it's best as a tool in your pocket for limited use, not as a consistent method. About the only time I've used it is when I've swung through too far on a crosser, then realized I needed to decrease my lead. In other words, better than stopping the gun completely to let the clay catch up to my gun. | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page Mason's Rifle Room Question for moving aerial target shooters (hunters, trap, skeet):
Main Page Mason's Rifle Room Question for moving aerial target shooters (hunters, trap, skeet):© SIGforum 2024