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It's OK to look at the holster when holstering. Login/Join 
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted
It really is.

https://opspectraining.com/som...-holster-holstering/

We all know a Tactical Ted. He's the dude that is yelling tactical truisms when you are on the range. DON'T LOOK AT THE HOLSTER, KEEP YOUR FOCUS DOWN RANGE ON THE BAD GUY. YOU HAVE TO KEEP BOTH EYES OPEN OR YOU'LL MISS HIS BUDDY. RELOAD AT ARMS LENGTH TO KEEP YOUR FOCUS ON THE BADGUY.

Now, someone, somewhere instilled this stuff in Ted's brain housing group like the importance of brushing your teeth, chasing girls, and drinking beer. Ted screams it at every opportunity. It is a way of life to Ted to the point that the takes joy in screaming it at his student's like the sadistic sensei from the Karate Kid. (the good one, not the crappy PC remake). Let's examine a few things, shall we?

First off, the whole "DON'T LOOK AT THE HOLSTER" thing? Look at the holster if you want. It's ok. I'll go as far as telling you that bad things aren't going to happen in that half second that you look down to ensure that the gun goes back in the holster. Remember, there's no race back to the holster. These Instagram dudes that post the videos from the two yard line? Yeah, you've seen them. They are at the two yard line. They draw and put two rounds (supposedly) somewhere on a realistic bad guy target in a blinding speed. They then jerk the gun back, bobs their heads back in forth like the plastic dog in the back window, and jam the gun back into the holster? Mongofail. There is no race back to the holster. None. If/when I go back to the holster, I'm doing it on my terms. I have either A- put a bad guy down, B- holding one that has given up at gunpoint or C- I'm holding an unknown trouble such as a doorway or the like. Completely no race back to the holster. In most of those circumstances, another officer is going to have a gun out, when I go back to the holster. Guess what? I won't die if I need to look at the holster for that half second to make sure it goes in. Tactical Ted is wrong again. In 21 years of LE, I can think of MAYBE one instance where I might need to holster up in a hurry. Only one.

KEEP BOTH EYES OPEN OR YOU'LL DIE. Yeah, no. Ted often forgets here that the most important thing here is..........wait for it.........putting bullet mass on target. Yep, not reading an eye chart. Yelling at people to keep their eyes open if they are having vision problems is negatively effecting their ability to put bullet mass on target. Or maybe they are lazy and don't want to put the time in learning to shoot with both eyes open. Who cares. Most people that I know that don't shoot with both eyes open do so because of their vision. And I'm good with it. My job as an instructor is to teach them to hit stuff as fast as they can. The dudes/dudettes that are just being lazy or resistant to a better technique? Me yelling at them over their eyes isn't going to help them or me. As far as missing the bad guy's buddy, that's why we scan before we holster. You know, scan and actually look at stuff instead of the range theatrics of jerking the gun back, bobbing the head back and forth, and jamming the gun in the holster.

RELOAD THE PISTOL AT ARMS LENGTH OR YOU'LL DIE. This one I have a bit of problem making fun of. I went to a distinguished school by a great instructor. He teaches this. The instructor, who'll we'll anonymously call Flint, is an all around great guy. He still teaches to load the gun at arms length. At the end of the class, he was again a class act. He caught me in the shoot house and thanked me for trying to do stuff his way. Class act all the way around. But, I can put it on the timer, under stress and load the gun faster pulling it back. More over, I can put students on the timer and it's faster. Your dentist doesn't work on you at arms length, unless you have really bad chronic halitosis. Your dentist works on you up close, where he has power and dexterity. The dexterity to drive that pick thingy through the top of your head from a molar. KEY POINT- That half second that you look at the magwell during the reload? You won't die. Ideally, we don't want to stand out in the open and reload the gun at slide lock that we practice on the range. We want to be moving, or behind cover/concealment.

We all know Tactical Ted. It is far worse for many of us when it is SGT/LT/CAPT/MAJ Tactical Ted. The next time you see Ted, remind him that putting fast hits on target is what matters. Can you/should you train to shoot with both eyes open? Yes, but it isn't the end of the world if you can't. Can you/should you train to be able to holster without looking at the holster? Best I can say is OK. In a perfect world, yes. But, I've missed the holster before while working the street. Yeah, holster is in the same place, but not the same angle because of how my body is positioned behind cover. I know of no one who has died from taking that half second to look at the holster on the way back, and beings there is no race back to the holster, this surely pisses Ted off for some reason. Can you/should you train to load the gun at arms length? No. It is faster to pull the gun back and load it. I can't find any documentation of any armed citizen or copper dying because they pulled the gun back to load it.

Don't be a Tactical Ted. Be Specific. Be Fast. Be Accurate. Pay attention to the things that matter. Hitting stuff fast. Putting the gun in the holster like there is no race.


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"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011

"There are only two reasons why a proven technique doesn't work under stress: the shooter isn't adequately trained in it's application, or he/she doesn't really believe it will work because he/she is programmed for failure to begin with." BG

 
Posts: 30372 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
...and now here's Al
with the Weather.
Picture of guardianangel762
posted Hide Post
It is, but you should have done enough training that you don't need to look. While you won't die it should be an act that does not take any processing to do.


___________________________________________________
But then of course I might be a 13 year old girl who reads alot of gun magazines, so feel free to disregard anything I post.
 
Posts: 8873 | Location: Lake Stevens, WA | Registered: March 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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Excellent post Jones.
In the 2 "incidents" I've had since 2013, I can honestly say I don't remember reholstering. Did I look? Pretty sure I did but I don't remember. First one rattled me bad and I don't even remember much. 2nd one, and I hate to say this, I was pissed because it happened in the parking lot of my business. Still don't remember reholstering.
Reloads are done close to me. I don't think I could do it at arms length. Ever.
Scanning with both eyes open? I shoot with both eyes open so I know I can. Did I in either incident? Not sure. 1st one scared the shit out of me. Pretty sure I had tunnel vision going on. 2nd one? 2 guys jumped out of a car after blocking me in, one had a metal pipe in his hand. Pretty focused on him.
All good info though and someday I hope to attend one of your classes.


I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
 
Posts: 1774 | Location: The armpit of Ohio | Registered: August 18, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moving cash
for money
posted Hide Post
As far as reloading has Ted never heard of weapon retention? Why reload at arms length? If you need to cover a target and you need to reload seems like time to seek cover, retreat, or both. Hard to get shot if you are not in the line of site.




"When in danger or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout" R.I.P. R.A.H.
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Posts: 9645 | Location: Jawjah | Registered: December 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
posted Hide Post
I don't know Ted, but I always look and make sure my holster is clear of any clothing or anything else that is going to send hot lead into my thigh or calf.

If there is still a danger, why am I reholstering anyways?

Reloads, never thought about it, but when I am shooting matches I don't do it, no one has corrected me and told me that it's faster to keep pistol at arms length. Not sure how that changes when shooting at cardboard vs people. Just tried it, very awkward. I use my index finger to feel and guild mags in and it's much harder at arms length.

Can't shoot both eyes open either.

I am certainly dead in my next gun battle.

Nice knowing you guys.



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 9469 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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Reloading: I was always taught to pretend there is a basketball at the end of your nose. Your handgun should be no further away than the far side of that ball when you are reloading.
 
Posts: 5060 | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Smarter than the
average bear
posted Hide Post
Great write up- all valid points, well made. My personal pet peeve is fast reholstering. Absolutely no reason for it and yet it is widely practiced. I reholster exaggeratedly slowly, with trigger finger WAY off the gun, and I always suggest that others do the same.
 
Posts: 2150 | Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana | Registered: June 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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Just finished a gunsite 250 course- the pinnacle of training facilities since 1976. While I did not agree with every little element taught they did stress draw quickly and holster reluctantly. There should be no race to reholster. They advocated training to the point reholstering should not require routinely looking at the holster but a quick peek if things were not going smoothly was encouraged. They advocated ( as has every trainer I have took class from) reloading in your workspace by your face, not at arms length.
 
Posts: 2050 | Location: Finally free in AZ! | Registered: February 14, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
Reluctantly. I like that.


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"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011

"There are only two reasons why a proven technique doesn't work under stress: the shooter isn't adequately trained in it's application, or he/she doesn't really believe it will work because he/she is programmed for failure to begin with." BG

 
Posts: 30372 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
sick puppy
posted Hide Post
good read. Thank you!

...I definitely need to take a training course.


☣Biohazard☣
 
Posts: 6400 | Location: Alpine, Ut | Registered: February 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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Great post, I agree and if I may add, I've encountered situations reholstering where I ended up having to look at my holster because something was obstructing it-at one time we were using Safariland drop leg holsters with a suede lining, and the lining had come loose and was fully blocking the pistol from reholstering. Seems like a pretty easy logical leap that there's a reasonable chance for stuff to get lodged in a holster if you're doing anything more dynamic than square bay shooting.

The only time I've felt rushed to get back in the holster was doing drills in a group before I knew better to take my time and not let the pace of the tower force me to hurry.
 
Posts: 2925 | Registered: July 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of RichardC
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I wait for my SO to lift my cover garment, and we both check the holster to be sure its clear before insertion.

Bet I won't have a problem getting an bystander to help me with this after a firefight in a 7-11. ( I keed, I keed)


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Posts: 8500 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RichardC:
Bet I won't have a problem getting an bystander to help me with this after a firefight in a 7-11. ( I keed, I keed)


WRONG!!!!

The language barrier will likely be too great.

(Tank you, come again)


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com
Check out our customer appreciation class
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums...1105858/m/7790088624

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011

"There are only two reasons why a proven technique doesn't work under stress: the shooter isn't adequately trained in it's application, or he/she doesn't really believe it will work because he/she is programmed for failure to begin with." BG

 
Posts: 30372 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Age Quod Agis
Picture of ArtieS
posted Hide Post
Thanks jlj. I have an astigmatism and 51 year old eyes that don't work the way that they used to. If I try to shoot two eyes open with a handgun, I get two front sights out there, and I am not really sure which is the real one. Not a good thing... Oddly enough, I can shoot both eyes open with a 1x red dot on a rifle.

Ever since an interesting incident in the Army, I have been a practitioner of the "Holster Slowly" school. There is no rush to put it away.

quote:
I wait for my SO to lift my cover garment, and we both check the holster to be sure its clear before insertion.

Fo real yo? Or are you playing with us and this just a dirty joke that really cracked me up at the end of a long week.



We may consent to be governed, but we will not be ruled. - Kevin D. Williamson, 2012
 
Posts: 8250 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: November 02, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
posted Hide Post
We had an officer charged with manslaughter a couple of years ago.

He had responded to a possible breaking and entering. Was confronted with a very large guy that was the subject of the call. The officers challenged him at gunpoint.

He charged them. He was a college football defensive back.

He nailed the officer and he and the officer tumbled down a small ravine/large ditch, and the officer shot and killed him during the struggle.


Officer was charged with voluntary manslaughter less than 24 hours later. A couple of years after, he had a hung jury trial and was not retried.

We train to holster quickly, without looking, now... Roll Eyes


-------------------------------
Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN

"All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones
 
Posts: 9152 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by chongosuerte:
We had an officer charged with manslaughter a couple of years ago.

He had responded to a possible breaking and entering. Was confronted with a very large guy that was the subject of the call. The officers challenged him at gunpoint.

He charged them. He was a college football defensive back.

He nailed the officer and he and the officer tumbled down a small ravine/large ditch, and the officer shot and killed him during the struggle.


Officer was charged with voluntary manslaughter less than 24 hours later. A couple of years after, he had a hung jury trial and was not retried.

We train to holster quickly, without looking, now... Roll Eyes

[SARCASM MODE]Wow, that makes sense![/SARCASM MODE]

One has a gun out (presumably because they think the situation is dangerous and warrants it) and a large subject charges them. The brass and the politicos expect one to put away the guns and get out the kid gloves in such a situation? I'd think a more appropriate response would be a failure drill, but what do I know...
 
Posts: 2524 | Registered: February 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I look at the holster. I have an aversion to shooting myself.

Years ago I did Iai-do, which involves drawing a japanese sword, cutting, and returning the sword to the saya (scabbard) in a fluid motion. I watched an individual run a sword through his leg, when the tip of the blade was not where he thought it was. Looked like it hurt a lot, too.

Last thing I want to do is snag the trigger on clothing or part of the holster. If the threat still exists, I'm not holstering anyway.
 
Posts: 1067 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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