I'm seeking general comments about the experience of sponsoring visiting firearms instruction at one's local site. I'm thinking of everything from an NRA Instructor Development School class to a one or two-day instructional session by someone who's much less well known.

I realize that the specific requirements of different instructors vary a lot, and that's something that must be obtained individually.

What I'm looking for are general comments about the overall experience: Was it worth it? Would you do it again? Did it go smoothly if you were careful to meet the instructor's requirements? Any negative comments?

You can name names if you're comfortable with that, but generalities are welcome too.

We recently had Rob Pincus visit our range and teach one of his Combat Focus Classes at our indoor range. We also have Lou Chiodo coming in September. I find it to be helpful to learn from various instructors due to their varying teaching styles and cirriculum. We have had visiting instructors teaching at our facilities for several years now and it has been well accepted. Most student comment on the variety and change of pace. Most of our instructors are retired Police/SWAT/Military and they do a excellent job. Once a customer has taken all of the course available at our facility they are left wanting more. With the busy schedule it is hard to incorporate too many more classes without overwhelming the staff, so that is where visiting instructors come in and offer a fresh new technique or style.

Fortunately for us it has been very well received and we get high return rate on students.

Thanks
Frank

Contact DCM7 Sigfreund, He's got the skinny on a well known forum members classes

please don't leave us off your list of visiting instructors you might be considering

Our local club is in the process of building a new range. Things like that are slow here in the rural high country for a variety of reasons, but not least because of our short summers. Nevertheless, I have hopes we may see substantial movement next spring.

Although it's better than the last place I trained with a traveling show, our present facility is primitive by any standard. With the prospect of an improved physical plant and greater scheduling flexibility in the future, though, I'm starting to dream. With high temperatures that seldom break 80, it might be an attractive alternative to most summer locales.

if you're interested, we do have a section of the range requirements we need to hold a class on the training website www.GraygunsTraining.com

it's pretty easy to add things when you're building from scratch...like 90 degree berms

send me a missive if you're interested in discussing this. believe me, i've been to a bunch of primitive ranges. not just with GGI, but also when i used to shoot PPC...and those were departmental ranges

Thanks, 9mmepiphany. I can't imagine that it would come as any surprise that GGI's training is among those I would love to host. I'd no doubt have to ask a lot of specific questions before pursuing such a probject, but a couple that occur to me are how much lateral space per student do you require and do you expect to have more than one target per student at the same time? Also, when your training incorporates steel targets, do you expect the range to provide them?

For everyone else: I'm still hoping for comments, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

I have hosted a bunch of classes over the years. It's how I got started with Bruce, actually. The biggest things I found out was that the devil's in the details.

Are your responsiblities just to provide range/classroom? Glock requires the host provide lunch each day. What they fail to tell you is you have to pay, then get reembursed.

Who is responsible for collecting tuition? GGI has staff to take care of this, others require you to. For instance, Larry Vickers requires you to collect all monies and registration. You write him a check for the agreed balance. What does your taxman think of this?

BATHROOMS! The biggest over looked things. I hosted a course one time where the bathrooms we were using was in the gunshop next door. The course was Sat-Sun. The gunshop was only open on Saturday. You can imagine how that went.

Can you support people that come to the class you hosted when they forget things? I've had people show up without ammo, or wrong type of ammo, etc. I always got the gunshop to have a large supply of ammo on hand extra to their normal load, just to be sure. Hell, we had a guy show up one time to a police sniper class with a muzzle loader.

Mother nature shows up with Murphy at the worst possible times. Does your range have drainage for the "rain of the century"? We had 14" of rain in two days that levee'd about two foot of water across our range. I pumped it out with a 3" gas driven pump. I had no fall back plan so we lost a day of training. Or do you have plans for intense, unseasonal heat or cold.

Will you have the range to yourself, or will you have people trying to come in and shoot during the course you are hosting. What are your plans of locals that come in to just watch? What does the company you are bringing in think about squatters?

Will the range require one of their RO's/SO's to be present during the training?

Just some thoughts from my worst disasters.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Just some thoughts from my worst disasters.

Excellent!
This is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for.

My range has hosted GGI and the course was a big success. Enjoyed by all who attended. We are getting ready to host the 2nd class....and yes, it's GGI again!

sigfreund,
Great questions!
you asked:

quote:

Was it worth it?

It depends on your motivation. Being passionate about training and life long learning makes coordinating training extremely worthwhile. Also, having an opportunity to train with top tier trainers is another great reason. However, doing it for "free" training is probably not the best reason for hosting a class. But, from what I know of you that is not likely the case.

quote:

Would you do it again?

Absolutely! In my situation, Bruce, Jerry, and Tang were great to work with. So much so, that I am coordinating classes throughout the Midwest and South.

quote:

Did it go smoothly if you were careful to meet the instructor's requirements?

Yes, but Murphy still seems to get invited to the party. The key factor, in my opinion, is the folks being hosted. If you are working with "family" oriented, cup half-full individuals then Murphy would have to work extremely hard to upset the experience.

Also, meeting the instructors requirements is only half of it, in my opinion. Personally, I felt as if I was hosting people into the region. I fully anticipate that some may travel with their spouse or family, not attending the course, or may also be interested in other things to do in the region. As a result, I am willing to help out with whatever someone might need to make their trip more enjoyable and productive.

Meals can be tough since individuals attending very likely have varied standards of living. Dealing with this can go a couple of different ways. My suggestion is to know your group and consider ways, in advance, to be inclusive.

Finally, realize that after the instructor(s) have left that you are a member of your community. Consequently, I would argue that you, as a gatekeeper, be selective in who you expose your club/area to. I consider myself fortunate, to the point of feeling blessed, to have been able to bring Grayguns into N.E. Ohio, not once but twice. Although I have not met any, I am sure that some training schools would not have left me with the same perception. (Note: We are working on one, and possibly two courses, in Ohio for 2009.)

quote:

Any negative comments?

Anticipate that 50% of those who respond to being interested in the course will actually show up. Also, control your costs. Finally, stay in communication with your liaison.

FWIW and respectfully submitted.

...and never, EVER, take your group to the Ryans Steak House

having co-ordinated GGI classes for 2 years, i've found that 50% of folks who tell you they'll come actually do...and you'll lose 1/3 of the "committed" folks by the time class rolls around. that's just how the numbers have been playing out.

as to room: we usually set our targets about one target apart. if they shoot on more than one target, they can share targets (transition drills) or we don't have the whole line shoot at the same time (vice-presidente). more than the lateral room, we need the ability to move laterally along the line when teaching...if we can do that, we can the teach classes at an indoor range.

most ranges have target stands...we just pick up the stakes at the local home depot. we usually have targets shipped ahead

we've been very lucky with steel classes. Karl, the owner of GT Targets, has shipped sets of steel to varous classes (or brought them when he drives up) and sells them to students, or the club, at a discounted price at the end of the class. if a range has steel, we will usually reimburse them for the use of it during the class, we can work something out...but remember i'm chinese

having eatries and lodging close to the range is important if most of your students are coming from out of town...we once had to drive over an hour to and from the range each day (group rates are good, someone we get points with is even better)

a covered area is good for students gear in cases of inclement weather. a classroom is nice, but isn't an absolute must

having 2 shooting bays available is really helpful as is having a safe a 90 degree arc of fire

we will use as much distance as you have. we need 20 yards, 50 yards is fun, anything over 150 yards just burns up ammo...the furthest we've shot during a class is 300+ yards

range fees we've paided have ranged from the usual fees the range changes $5-10/person/day, $50-250/day to a range that wanted $1500/day...this is a reason we've gone to a tuition + pro-rated range fee billing system.

there is a lot to be said for how Larry Vickers bills. he has a fee and the host is responsible for paying him that amount when they pick him up at the airport...it is up to the host, how many students he wants in the class...subject to the class max...and how much he charges them.

Thanks for all the extremely useful replies and information. Only time will tell whether I'm able to make anything happen in the future, but all this is helping me decide if it's even worth trying (so far, so good).

This is our second Bruce Gray class that we'll have the pleasure of hosting in San Diego. The first was an introductory (fundamentals) course that had a lot of play time mixed (metal targets, shooting playing cards etc.). This upcomming class will build on that experience.

The first thing we had to identify was a suitable location (safe, easy to get to, an area to congregate and go through the didactics as well as have places to store equiptment, have access to food, drinks, bathrooms, places to sit down and take shelter should you be faced with rain etc.).

Next we had to find a suitable date (make sure everyone (or most everyone) could attend.... don't forget to confirm that the range was available as well.) this took a little trial and effort.....i've learned a lot.... like make sure it doesn't conflict with any major sporting event.

Liablility can be an issue of real concern, Thankfully, our range is insured and so is Mr. Gray. Still best to make sure.

Bruce is an absolute gentleman and a true professional. His organization (Tang, Scott, Jljones, Torrie, Beki et al.) has been doing this for a good while now and they make it quite easy.


The participants i'm happy to say have consisted of a wonderful group of people. Maybe that's the real benefit...Linda and I had so much fun meeting everyone....friendships were made and perhaps that was the best part of it all.

Start well in advance and try to keep everyone informed....as best as you can. I tried hard to post info and updates on this forum and our local state oriented forum as well.

I hope i'll have the privalege of hosting a lot more in the future.


hope this helps. yours Mayer

this just popped into mind...if you have any input into how they build.

most places use gravel for their range footing...it's tradition...you might consider using sand.

we worked on sand in KY and it was excellent. easier on the feet, drains well and makes brass pickup much easier. no raking brass into piles to be scooped up. there's a roller with rubber(?) fingers that you roll over the sand that picks up the brass while letting the sand fall back to the ground.

oh...don't use a gas generator to power lights. you electronic muffs won't dampen the sound of a generator...as me how i know. in that same vein, avoid either goats or donkeys on the range or school buses and rusty lawn furniture

Our local club had Dave Spaulding come last year and teach a one day combative fundamentals course...
He's coming back to teach 3 separate days this month. Thur: beginner Fri: advanced Sat: beginner (again)

I'll see if I can get some contact info from our local guy that arranged it all if you are interested. Please contact me via email if you want more info.
Thanks
John

SF,

I'm sure you know both Pat Rogers and Larry Vickers make anual trips to Colorado, May and September respectivly. There are a few others that have been out this way, but with less consistantcy. I know 100% Pat would like to have another stop while he's out here to help defray some of the fuel costs of driving from VA. I've looked into hosting classes multiple times, just hasn't worked out. Let me know if you need more info, keep me posted if you set something up, I'm probably interested.

Thanks for the additional information; I'll definitely keep those possibilities in mind.
I'm still looking for general hints and tips.

I've hosted two nationally known instructors over the years. My experience was that there is a lot of work involved for the free class you get.

After the first two, I stopped hosting folks, figuring it was a net benefit to me to simply attend a class someone else was hosting. As I've gotten married recently and money for training is tighter I may have to host some courses to keep my training tempo up.

The fact is that many people who are "committed" won't show up. If you require a non-refundable deposit, you tend to weed out the no-shows a little bit better but risk upsetting the people who lose money.