The impact of a manual safety on deploying the gun is vastly less than carrying chamber empty. Everything is a trade off. Given the vast number of times that a carrier will handle his gun loaded in a non-defensive situation, vs the ever so slight possibility of a defensive presentation, the chances of a brain fart causing an AD/ND is vastly higher than a brain fart causing a non-discharge in a defensive situation.
And anyone who thinks, no matter how good they consider their gun handling procedures, that they can't have a brain fart, is deluding themselves. How many posts have we seen on here of members' mea culpas about blowing a hole in a floor or wall in their house. And that's only those who've admitted it.
The OP didn't state what gun it was. So I looked for the original post. It was a Glock 19. So this is a very graphic example of Glock Leg. Below is the original Instagram post for any interested.
|Go ahead punk, make my day|
Until you need the weapon to save your life.
|Step by step walk the thousand mile road|
You underestimate the ingenuity of the idiots out there.
Nice is overrated
"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government."
Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
|Not One of |
the Cool Kids
The NRA instructor program has made a joke out of the term. I don't mean that as an insult to those folks out there who hold that certification. I mean to insult those people who are the bare minimum standards type of instructor who cannot or will not go further with their instructor education.
Hold on a tic. You remove your finger from the frame, a global, universal practice for ensuring the weapon is safe, and place your finger inside the trigger guard, behind the trigger???
What could go wrong?
I’m with RHINOWSO on this one. I know AIWB is what all the cool kids are doing, but it breaks one of the basic rules of gun handling that I’m not willing to break. It is a rule I enforce at my own home range. I know the “it’s a training issue” crowd are willing to take the risk, but I am not.
I realize bad gun handling takes place all the time with all types of carry methods, it’s just less likely to be lethal than AIWB.
"Living among the enemy behind the Tofu Curtain"
Oh no, I'm not. I'm only discussing this particular scenario. Chamber empty when holstering = No bang, even if you are a 7th degree black belt idiot.
It is a matter of personal choice. I have had a considerable amount of pistol training. The reason is that I can be clumsy and I have had plenty of things go wrong. I am careful, but I can fall, trip or take my mind off the task at hand. I seldom drove a motorcycle because I remember my bike wrecks. I am content to ride on the back of a motorcycle with an experienced rider. I do not fault people for the AWIB with a loaded chamber.
The Israeli method is possible with charging the slide in a quick fluid motion but I am not that guy. I carry either a revolver with a dual action trigger, an LCP or a Sig with DA/SA trigger. I see how my hands shake when I get an adrenaline dump.
From what I’ve seen of “training” locally, one shoots until empty, so no reholster issues. Just sayin’.
The trend seems to not be marksmanship as we once knew it, but repeated pulling of the trigger until empty.
I get my training from a great couple. Both retired firearms instructors for Tampa PD. They shoot competively as well. I always got and need small group or indivdiual instruction. My next step is getting them to teach me proper carbine shooting with my newly acquired ARs. I have shot bolt action deer guns, but never an AR 15. There will be lots of drills I expect.
I definitely prioritize training and practice. That said, I find it hard to fall into the extreme camp of believing that action type doesn't matter, any failure is a failure of training or failure to keep the finger off the trigger. And if we say that it is, it has to be...ok, but we are all fallible and susceptible to high stress, complacency and bad circumstances.
Here we have clothing getting snagged and not a trigger finger issue, but still an issue of not being careful enough on the re-holster.
Action type definitely matters and is an important consideration. I highly doubt even the most hard-core (it is all about training) camp would consider carrying a SAO cocked and unlocked. But why not? If proper training and handling is all you need...shouldn't matter if it is a 1lb trigger SA target pistol should it?
On the other end of the spectrum would be a DAO set up with a NY trigger. This would be extremely "Murphy-proof" at the cost of not being able to be shot well.
In the middle is where everyone lives; DAO, DA/SA, striker, SAO with safety. It is an interplay of user/training level, action type, carry method, and carry gear and clothing.
A rigid OWB holster open carry on one end is a lot less prone to issues of muzzling yourself and clothing interference than AIWB on the other end.
Further complicating/blurring the lines is that striker guns are a sorta hybrid between DAO and SA and the trigger pulls keep getting shorter and lighter as is the case with the P365.
Personally, I do carry AIWB, but it is with a DA/SA P6. I have tried (with an unloaded gun of course) to pull the trigger with my thumb on the hammer. I can't do it, thumb strength and leverage is a lot more than the trigger finger has.
I really like DA/SA for the added stress and "murphy" protection of that long and heavy 1st shot (relative to the striker guns, even with DA action work) and the external hammer. Big danger to the DA/SA would be a lack of training and practice to where de-cocking has not been trained to unconscious competence...then you have an unlocked SA.
“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik
The world's a dangerous place, we can help! http://portlandfirearmtraining.com/
|Res ipsa loquitur|
Or a Beretta Nano. My every day CCW.
If you're not comfortable carrying with one in the pipe, you probably should not be carrying a gun. You will not have enough time to chamber a round, should you ever actually need to use the pistol. Certainly not unless you practice every day, and then only maybe. Things will happen very fast, and that time you spend chambering a round is an eternity.
"Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash
"I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman
Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM
"You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP
|In search of baseball, strippers, and guns|
I don’t appendix carry...I’m not skinny enough
That said, I have the glock gadget on all of my glocks, and have several thousand rounds through them across several guns, and I’ve never had a single issue. Honestly, the only reasons I see not to have them on a defensive use glock is if you’re unable to afford them, or your department doesn’t allow them (and then maybe talk to weps to get them authorized)
If the meek will inherit the earth, what will happen to us tigers?
Doesn't the manual of arms, action type, and "mission" drive the holstering decisions? In other words, what appears to be a collection of good reasoning, above, seems suited to only one situation at a time in each post.
I hike the backwoods often. It's doubtful that I will encounter a "tactical" situation or a fire fight. My Sig goes along for the four-legged apex predators and/or other serious threats that aren't likely to present as immediate surprises or with a significant startle factor. And yes, I have fallen on various handguns in the past while climbing up or down advanced terrain (including condition 1 1911's) So:
I carry a 320x Compact with a full mag, alternating cartridges, empty chamber. I practice a C-clamp, off-hand racking out of my OWB holster, and never re-holster with a loaded chamber or a dangling jacket or pack strap in the way. I'm an accomplished hiker and a hobbyist shooter.
Please advise or comment - I'm sincerely interested.
|Fighting the good fight|
I'm not a medico, but based on the more detailed explanation in the NAR image posted a few posts above this one, it would appear that the photo of the wound was taken well after the surgeons had already repaired his "obliterated femoral artery", since he appears to be in a normal hospital room without a TQ on the leg or an excess amount of bleeding, and they look to simply be changing the bandage on the wound. So in the process of repairing the damaged artery, they likely had to create/widen the large opening in his leg, and there may not have been enough undamaged tissue left to close it up, or the wound may have been left open to heal from the inside out for some other medical reason.
I agree 100% with these statements. Back in the 70's and 80's (and likely before), the long DA revolver trigger pull was part of the safety, and cocked and locked was considered to be at another level.
I cringe when I see novice CCW holders going cocked and locked or using an action type that, in the old days, seemed more risky.
Accidents don't happen often, luckily, but I think we should strive to be like the commercial aviation folks, where the goal is absolute zero. When we have "experienced instructors" having accidents like this, there is room for improvement, both in equipment and technique.
powermad’s post provides a lot of insight. Regardless of position, or condition, of carrying – poor Drew unnecessarily, in my opinion, went outside and placed himself in danger. Then, he made matters even worse with an apparent quick holstering of his Glock. I have gotten to be an old guy using common sense as my first line of defense. It is easy to be an armchair quarterback, but there is no way I would have gone outside, after dark, to investigate a commotion. Shots fired or screaming out there? If my family members were all still safe, then, I would have called the police.
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