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**GRAPHIC** This really make me rethink AIWB with a striker gun Login/Join 
Res ipsa loquitur
Picture of BB61
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
No image or not, these days I wince at the term "experienced instructor" more than AIWB. That is one instance, where I'd venture to say that as popular as AIWB is that it is used by thousands of people daily.

"Experienced Instructor" is a meaningless term to me that equals "someone who has been fooling people out of the money for a while now".

I say that as someone who sees an industry busting at the seams with a lot of very poor quality product.


Sometime ago you had some advice I follow religiously now. In short, you suggested you put your thumb over/back of the slide when holstering your weapon. A simple but very effective safety step as it prevents the slide from cycling. I imagine no ND if he had followed your training tip.


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Posts: 10773 | Registered: October 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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quote:
Originally posted by BB61:
Sometime ago you had some advice I follow religiously now. In short, you suggested you put your thumb over/back of the slide when holstering your weapon. A simple but very effective safety step as it prevents the slide from cycling. I imagine no ND if he had followed your training tip.



... Even if the slide can't cycle, it would still have fired when something got into the trigger guard. The slide is stationary during the trigger pull and primer ignition process. Retarding the rearward motion of the slide just means it won't eject the fired round and chamber a second round.

Having your thumb over the back of the slide is a good habit for external hammer-fired DA guns, were you would be able to feel the hammer begin moving backwards if the trigger is being pulled by an object during holster insertion. But it does nothing to prevent a single action, striker-fired, or shrouded/internal hammer-fired gun from being discharged if the trigger is manipulated by a foreign object in the holster during reholstering.
 
Posts: 23593 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by BB61:
Sometime ago you had some advice I follow religiously now. In short, you suggested you put your thumb over/back of the slide when holstering your weapon. A simple but very effective safety step as it prevents the slide from cycling. I imagine no ND if he had followed your training tip.



... Even if the slide can't cycle, it would still have fired when something got into the trigger guard. The slide is stationary during the trigger pull and primer ignition process. Retarding the rearward motion of the slide just means it won't eject the fired round and chamber a second round.

Having your thumb over the back of the slide is a good habit for external hammer-fired DA guns, were you would be able to feel the hammer begin moving backwards if the trigger is being pulled by an object during holster insertion. But it does nothing to prevent a single action, striker-fired, or shrouded/internal hammer-fired gun from being discharged if the trigger is manipulated by a foreign object in the holster during reholstering.


Having your thumb on the back of a striker fired gun is still valid. Rarely do things get into the trigger guard and cause the pistol to discharge without them, but generally they'll contact the slide and cause some degree of movement. Reholstering with the thumb on the back of a Glock slide will not only help you detect any degree of movement, but it also gives you a greater degree of dexterity in reholstering a pistol. This is particularly important when you reholstering a AIWB.

I carry a Glock 19 AIWB the most, and have started carrying it that away at work. I put my thumb on the back of the slide 100 percent of the time, and usually try to look at the holster on the way in.


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Posts: 33179 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for the tip on jacket strings. I never thought of that.
 
Posts: 15047 | Location: Lexington, KY | Registered: October 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Step by step walk the thousand mile road
Picture of Sig2340
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Will our resident medicos weigh in on this question, please....

Is that gaping wound an avulsion, or are the tissues merely pulling away from the line of the bullet's path?

I ask because that is a Big Damned Hole in the thigh from a bullet that looks to have come into skin contact about 1/3 of the way from the left side of the edge closest to the batient's scrotum, and exited just about the apex of the angle near the knee.

In any event, he has month of healing followed by months of PT ahead of him.

I won't carry AIWB.





Nice is overrated

"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government."
Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018

 
Posts: 28566 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Spread the Disease
Picture of flesheatingvirus
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Wow. How did that not hit his femoral? Damn lucky.


________________________________________

-- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. --
 
Posts: 14991 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: October 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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State Parole Officer had an ND with TDA that he forgot to de-cock. He was carrying OWB at the 4' position in a leather holster with thumb break. The 45 round entered his hip and traveled the entire length of his leg until it stopped in the ankle. I don't carry AIWB but pretty much anything other than 3' and cross draw are pointing at something on your body.


DPR
 
Posts: 476 | Registered: March 10, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ruger357:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike the Texan:
Have you considered a striker control device for the Glock?


I’ve handled them. I don’t like fooling around with the internals and design of a gun.


The glock gadget or "striker control device" does not fool around with the internals, or the design of the gun. It has one failure mode, and that's the hinge point. Worse case scenario, the hinge fails and it leaves teh weapon, in which case the pistol continues to function normally.

The only function of the glock gadget is to prevent striker rearward movement. Pressing on the cover plate prevents striker movement and trigger movement: it prevents discharge of the firearm.

I have them on my G43 for pocket carry, and on my G32 for inside the waistband carry.

I don't do appendix carry.

quote:
Originally posted by 10round:
I don't carry AIWB but pretty much anything other than 3' and cross draw are pointing at something on your body.


I hear that a lot, and my only response is that it's certainly not true for me, but if it's true for someone else, then they're either electing to take additional risk, or doing it wrong.

I don't know what 3' means, but I do not cover my body when carrying outside the waistband, and I don't cover it during inside the waistband. I don't cover it for pocket carry, or ankle carry, or off-body carry (when the pistol is in a holster in a secure spot).

That said, proper handling generally negates the issue of this thread. I don't return a weapon to the holster quickly. I look at the holster. There are those who can't for various reasons, and I understand that, but I also see a large number of those handling a handgun that try to return the pistol to the holster at the same speed they do when rapid drawing, and that's really not a good idea.

As for covering the body during drawing or reholstering, that's a function of training. I used to carry a SP-101 small of the back, and I heard that drawing was impossible without covering myself or those around me, and the same for reholstering. This was 100% bullshit. Muzzle discipline is not an accident.
 
Posts: 4156 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Sig2340:

I won't carry AIWB.


I have wanted to try it but I can't make myself comfortable doing it.
I realize that it could happen IWB at 4 o clock or OWB but I am way more comfortable in that type of carry that appendix.


I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
 
Posts: 2411 | Location: The armpit of Ohio | Registered: August 18, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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Every once in a while, I state my affinity for safeties on striker guns. I usually get a fair amount of static for this. But if this guy had a safety on his gun and used it, he likely wouldn't have sustained this injury.
 
Posts: 19232 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Gambit
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Agreed

quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
Folks get too comfortable. They become complacent. That's when shit happens. As simple as that. Not the tool's fault.


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Posts: 769 | Location: Acadiana | Registered: February 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
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quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Every once in a while, I state my affinity for safeties on striker guns. I usually get a fair amount of static for this. But if this guy had a safety on his gun and used it, he likely wouldn't have sustained this injury.

You want manual safety for your striker, fine, but don't make excuse for someone's carelessness.
 
Posts: 18567 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Crusty old
curmudgeon
Picture of Jimbo54
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This a great example why I'm perfectly comfortable carrying 1911 style single action guns IWB.

Jim


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Posts: 8093 | Location: The right side of Washington State | Registered: September 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Green grass and
high tides
Picture of old rugged cross
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What is aiwb. I know what iwb is. What does the a stand for?



"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 14080 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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Appendix IWB.

Carrying at the 1:00/2:00ish position, ahead of the hip. (Roughly where the appendix is located, internally.)



 
Posts: 23593 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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Agreed. Noting makes a gun completely idiot proof. However, it can be make more idiot resistant.

Without a safety, a striker gun has a single point of failure (and a pretty easy to actuate point of failure) for brain fart. With a safety, the idiot needs to daisy chain two brain farts to have an catastrophic outcome. This makes it exponentially less likely to happen.

quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Every once in a while, I state my affinity for safeties on striker guns. I usually get a fair amount of static for this. But if this guy had a safety on his gun and used it, he likely wouldn't have sustained this injury.

You want manual safety for your striker, fine, but don't make excuse for someone's carelessness.
 
Posts: 19232 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Blackwater
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Slow to the holster.

Does this "experienced instructor" now get demoted? Wink


Joe

Oath Keeper
 
Posts: 2259 | Location: Az | Registered: October 28, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Agree with Blackwater. There is a need for a rapid draw, but not so much for re-holstering.
Are there situations where you need to leather up quickly? Possibly. Such as needing to render aid to an injured person.
One the most neglected areas of training is a proper holstering. I had to address that when my PD transitioned to P229s and dumped DAQ Smith autos. Quite a few of troops wanted to holster without decocking.
And jacket strings? Cut the damn things off!
And creating good habits goes a long way to putting your artillery away safely once you are under stress.
The wound to me appears to have traveled down just under the skin. It was then opened surgically in order to clean it up. Clothing, powder or holster bits may have been in it.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 9342 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Agreed. Noting makes a gun completely idiot proof. However, it can be make more idiot resistant.

Without a safety, a striker gun has a single point of failure (and a pretty easy to actuate point of failure) for brain fart. With a safety, the idiot needs to daisy chain two brain farts to have an catastrophic outcome. This makes it exponentially less likely to happen.

quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Every once in a while, I state my affinity for safeties on striker guns. I usually get a fair amount of static for this. But if this guy had a safety on his gun and used it, he likely wouldn't have sustained this injury.

You want manual safety for your striker, fine, but don't make excuse for someone's carelessness.

Carry chamber empty = 100% idiot proof.

Anything else is a risk. Yes, I agree that manual safety makes it less risky but is never 100% safe, because anything mechanical can fail, however unlikely. So, it's back to the brain and not the tool. It should never be "Since I have 10 safeties on this gun, I can afford to be a little careless". Don't put 100% of your faith on mechanical safeties. There is a reason that anyone with a rational brain would never look down a loaded barrel, even with all the safeties on.
 
Posts: 18567 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Green grass and
high tides
Picture of old rugged cross
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Thank you for clarifying what the "a" stood for. No, I have no desire to carry a loaded firearm in that position.



"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 14080 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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