Received the 6378 (finally after 11 days) from Optics Planet today. Apparently I hit their website on a good day, finding this model (showing as 1 left!) for $17 and change. About $26 shipped. The description was “paddle only”, but it did come with the belt loop attachment.

I had to modify it slightly for the ambi safety; the right side was fine, but the left needed a little notch. Works great.




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I'm no longer testing a SERPA for use with my P30S. I have some misgivings about the system (yes, the internet is full of stuff about SERPA), and even with the famous HK heavy DA pull I wonder if I can train around the issue of the trigger finger slipping into the guard.

I currently train to flip the safety off right before unholstering, so the added step of releasing the retention tab creates more complexity.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: striker1,

I hope this doesn't come off as preachy or rude, because that's not my intention.


There is absolutely no reason to choose the SERPA with the holsters available today.

If you want retention, go ALS. If you do not desire/need retention, then pick a quality holster from a reputable maker.

The SERPA is dangerous on many levels. Not just the use of your trigger finger for deactivating the retention device, but other things. Like how easy they are to rip off your belt and the retention mechanism getting jammed up with debris.


ALS all the way. lol

quote:

Originally posted by TheNewbie:
I hope this doesn't come off as preachy or rude, because that's not my intention.


There is absolutely no reason to choose the SERPA with the holsters available today.

If you want retention, go ALS. If you do not desire/need retention, then pick a quality holster from a reputable maker.

The SERPA is dangerous on many levels. Not just the use of your trigger finger for deactivating the retention device, but other things. Like how easy they are to rip off your belt and the retention mechanism getting jammed up with debris.


ALS all the way. lol

I have to agree with what you've said. No, you didn't come across negatively at all.

Oh and I used SERPA for a long time. I have since seen the light.

I’ve pretty much decided to return the SERPA. I found a 6738 ALS (paddle) to try for $17 (60% off) at Optics Planet. I don’t know how strong the paddle-only ALS are, but my intention is for this to be temporary until I go the custom route.

The Safariland 6738 ALS is a very good holster. You will be pleased.

Tex Gribner approves....

https://youtu.be/XTGmTrQXrwg

Flipping the safety off before you unholster your gun is just asking for a hole in your leg.

Bob

Gotta say that in the professional training I've had, flipping the safety off right before unholstering would get you ejected from the range. Not to be snarky, but it's a big time safety issue, both on the range and on the street. The safety does not come off, nor does the finger touch the trigger until the gun comes up & into the target area. Not trying to preach here, and perhaps I misunderstand your training regimen...Rod

quote:

Originally posted by rbert0005:
Flipping the safety off before you unholster your gun is just asking for a hole in your leg.

Bob

On a TDA? Not talking a 1911.

BTW I’m completely open to any correction of technique by those with far more experience.

Good decision, OP. FWIW, Serpa holsters with the trigger finger release mechanism are not allowed in many professional training classes. Even at the club level, our large NRA program does not allow them.

While the idea of "training" yourself out of the possibility of slipping the trigger finger onto the trigger has some appeal, it's unrealistic. Especially under high stress conditions or just a bad hair day.

Too many other good, safe options out there.

Returned the SERPA to the lgs this morning. Looking forward to getting the 6378 ALS. I can’t find the exact model on Safariland’s website — 6378-295-132-DM — but it’s a paddle-only model with the STX Tactical black finish. Appears to be a mid-ride, slight forward cant.

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:

quote:

Originally posted by rbert0005:
Flipping the safety off before you unholster your gun is just asking for a hole in your leg.

Bob

On a TDA? Not talking a 1911.

BTW I’m completely open to any correction of technique by those with far more experience.

TDA = Traditional Double Action = first shot DA, SA thereafter?

My training for such guns is to draw and pull trigger. I have done a bit of revolver shooting and treat the DA auto the same way. I don't engage a manual safety on a DA/SA auto.

I took one look at a SERPA in an LGS, one day, and said to myself "I don't think so."

There was a video posted here on SF, once, IIRC, of a SERPA that wouldn't let go of somebody's pistol at a training thing? Just about everybody had a go at trying to get that thing to let go of the pistol. I think they finally got the gun free, but only after destroying the holster.

quote:

Originally posted by TheNewbie:
The SERPA is dangerous on many levels. Not just the use of your trigger finger for deactivating the retention device, but other things. Like how easy they are to rip off your belt and the retention mechanism getting jammed up with debris.


ALS all the way.

Indeed. The ALS mechanism is by far the best option for holster retention. (Though thumb breaks do still have their place, for leather holsters that need retention. Plus, thumb break holsters are generally easier to conceal than the bulkier ALS holsters.)


And I will note that Safariland's newest 7-series ALS holster models have a couple flaws, although none of them are the fault of the ALS system itself, and none are as egregious as the Serpa holters.

First, Safariland cut corners with the material used in their newest 7xxx holsters. The plastic material is cheaper and flimsier than the 6xxx series, and more prone to bending and deformation during heavy use (like ground fighting and really active shooting drills). We've had a couple guys deform/break their new 7-series holsters during training.

In addition, some of the the 7xxx series holsters aren't available with open muzzles. Form what I've seen so far, this seems to be limited to WML-compatible 7xxx holsters. This closed holster results in spent brass occasionally falling inside the holster during shooting, rendering the gun unable to be reholstered. In order to clear the brass from the holster, the holster has to be removed, a long pair or forceps have to be employed, or the shooter has to be held upside down by his ankles and shook vigorously.

The 6xxx light-bearing ALS holsters have a round plug that can be popped out to leave the WML portion open for debris clearance, but there is no such option in the 7xxx light-bearing holsters.

So if you have a WML and need an ALS retention holster, I'd avoid the Safariland 7xxx holsters for serious use. Stick to the older 6xxx holsters.

(Again, this isn't a flaw of the ALS retention mechanism, just a flaw with the design of a certain line of Safariland ALS holsters.)

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:
I found a 6738 ALS (paddle) to try for $17 (60% off) at Optics Planet. I don’t know how strong the paddle-only ALS are, but my intention is for this to be temporary until I go the custom route.

The 6378 isn't paddle belt attachment only. It also comes with a belt loop mount in the package, just like on the 6377. Three screws and 30 seconds to swap the paddle out for a more secure belt attachment method.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
There was a video posted here on SF, once, IIRC, of a SERPA that wouldn't let go of somebody's pistol at a training thing? Just about everybody had a go at trying to get that thing to let go of the pistol. I think they finally got the gun free, but only after destroying the holster.

Yep. If debris gets behind the release button on a Serpa, it cannot be depressed and the gun is locked into the holster. The holster has to be disassembled to remove the gun.

That is, of course, a Very Bad Thing in a gunfight.

Plus, like TheNewbie pointed out, that is just one of the three critical flaws in the Serpa holster design.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I took one look at a SERPA in an LGS, one day, and said to myself "I don't think so."

There was a video posted here on SF, once, IIRC, of a SERPA that wouldn't let go of somebody's pistol at a training thing? Just about everybody had a go at trying to get that thing to let go of the pistol. I think they finally got the gun free, but only after destroying the holster.

Kudos to the other shooters. Apparently they performed a public service.

Thanks Rogue, for the additional info.

I noticed some concerns about releasing the safety before you draw your handgun. We may need a better understanding - what model HK are you carrying.

I'm not knowledgeable about all of the HK models. From my days as a Safety Officer at pistol matches I understand some models of HKs that function either as a traditional double action or as a single action with a cocked and locked feature.

With these pistols, safe position are:
> Hammer down, safety not engaged
> Hammer down, safety engaged
> Cocked and locked with safety engaged

If your model HK fits the above, AND you are carrying with hammer down, then it seems you can safely disengage your safety before drawing your handgun. I'm not sure that's what I'd do, but I don't think there would be a safety issue.

quote:

Originally posted by TexasRaider:
Tex Gribner approves....

https://youtu.be/XTGmTrQXrwg

He was using a 5.11 Thumbdrive Holster. He flipped the safety off on his 1911 thinking it was the release on the holster. He learned a hard lesson.

quote:

Originally posted by SR:
I noticed some concerns about releasing the safety before you draw your handgun. We may need a better understanding - what model HK are you carrying.

P30S (rear decocker, ambi safety, DA/SA)

quote:

I'm not knowledgeable about all of the HK models. From my days as a Safety Officer at pistol matches I understand some models of HKs that function either as a traditional double action or as a single action with a cocked and locked feature.

With these pistols, safe position are:
> Hammer down, safety not engaged
> Hammer down, safety engaged
> Cocked and locked with safety engaged

If your model HK fits the above, AND you are carrying with hammer down, then it seems you can safely disengage your safety before drawing your handgun. I'm not sure that's what I'd do, but I don't think there would be a safety issue.

That’s what I’m doing for now, unless it truly is unsafe. But I don’t believe it is with this particular pistol.

Using the ALS holster, I can thumb back the retention release, and then draw/present, flicking the safety off, *or*, thumb back the retention release, draw slightly, flick safety off, and complete the draw. I welcome opinions on which is best.

With my 3rd Gen S&Ws (DA) and 1911s (SA), I always trained to disengage the safety as you transitioned from the initial draw to the presentation, once the gun was rotated towards the threat. The adage was "On target, off safety". That is, you disengage the safety once the gun is oriented towards the target.

I'd be wary of training to do it as one of the first steps in my draw stroke.

Granted, it would be safer to do so on a DA with a manual safety than on other styles of handguns, but you'd still be building that muscle memory/mental imprint of disengaging the safety early. If you were to later carry a cocked and locked SA, you'd have been training to do something that's less than safe on that platform.