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Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted
Some of us occasionally (some routinely) carry a back up gun. It has sparked some interesting conversations of late on whether or not back up guns should have a red dot sight.

Some have argued that back up guns should have no electronic sights installed due to the potential of ankle carry. They should be simple, iron sighted, smaller pistols. Other have argued that it is stupid to limit yourself to iron sights only, particularly if your primary has a RDS on it.

I'm neither hot nor cold on the idea, nor am I emotionally invested as I can see the logic behind both arguments. The truth is, I didn't think that the topic would bring up so much controversy around the water cooler.

Discuss.

Question:
What configuration do you believe that a back up gun should be?

Choices:
Iron sights
Optics

 




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Posts: 35046 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I voted iron sights for two reasons. One, I’ve never voted first and been the entire poll. Two, backup to me means very basic very simple. All that being said I have never carried a bug nor do I ever foresee me doing so. While I think a simple, reliable, bug is a good idea I can’t think why a properly setup optic could hurt. I would still lean to basic irons though if pushed to decide.
 
Posts: 3546 | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
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quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola:
I voted iron sights for two reasons. One, I’ve never voted first and been the entire poll. Two, backup to me means very basic very simple. All that being said I have never carried a bug nor do I ever foresee me doing so. While I think a simple, reliable, bug is a good idea I can’t think why a properly setup optic could hurt. I would still lean to basic irons though if pushed to decide.


I completely see your logic. I try not to install my opinion into polls that I put up, but you are exactly where I am at on the issue.




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"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 35046 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I kneel for my God,
and I stand for my flag
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Clint Smith is annoying, but sometimes makes a good point (back up guns). Sorry, I don't know how to hot link a video.

https://youtu.be/hbehsFbv6XA
 
Posts: 1338 | Location: Oregon | Registered: September 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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Jerry,

Are you talking about LEO, especially uniformed, or civilian CCW?
 
Posts: 20101 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of pulicords
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Back "in the day", I carried a S&W Model 342 in my rear pant's pocket as a BUG and had a set of Crimson Trace grips on it. They were no larger than other stocks available and seemed pretty reliable, as I'd never had them fail to work as advertised. Better than those hard to see "factory" sights, so why not use them?


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Posts: 9432 | Location: The Free State of Arizona | Registered: June 13, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My back up is NAA .22 LR mini revolver, so it's iron sights for me!
 
Posts: 79 | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I started out with an ankle rig but switched to a vest holster. If my duty holster piece has an optic, I would try for the same on the BUG, provided I could find a vest rig for the setup.


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Posts: 11483 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Only time I've carried a BUG was on duty. My BUG was always a S&W J Frame - different models over the years.

So Iron Sights.


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Posts: 1615 | Location: Collier Twp, PA | Registered: June 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
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I carry a BUG on a regular basis and voted iron sights.

I've found that for me it takes too long to acquire the red dot on a draw in spite of the fact that I shoot a box of shells through a handgun with a red dot every week and have for around 4 months now. OTOH, I have red dots on a couple of ARs and an MPX and I instantly acquire the target, actually faster than I can acquire irons on a rifle. Go figure.
 
Posts: 5817 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bolt Thrower
Picture of Voshterkoff
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Irons, gives you a size advantage on the already difficult task of hiding a second gun. Also if the optic is obscured by something like blood, mud, intense fogging, or rain, what good is a second optic going to do?
 
Posts: 9031 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of T.Webb
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I usually just carry a primary gun, (lately, my P365XL) and a spare magazine. Last summer, when there was a lot of civil unrest, I added a second gun, my P365 (the original) and a spare mag. On (only) one occasion, my primary was my P320 Compact with 2 spare P320 Carry mags, and my P365XL was relegated to backup. A buddy (who can carry anything on duty) carried his FN 5.7 with 3 20 round mags, and a K Frame with 2 spare speed loaders) .357 as a back up gun.I know that the only reason he chose the 5.7 was the 20 round mags.


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Posts: 810 | Location: Long Island, N.Y. / Stephentown, N.Y. | Registered: March 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Iron because they’re less likely to fail than a glass / battery powered optic..


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Posts: 12709 | Location: VIrtual | Registered: November 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I say irons because one possible reason for needing to switch to the backup is that environmental factors are creating the need to switch to the BUG due to their impact on the primary gun's optic. Having one gun with an optic and a second without gives you options.

Sure, the nature of the way a backup gun is typically carried might better protect the optic from the elements than the one on your primary/duty gun, but if things have gone so sideways that you need to resort to your backup, I don't think the difference between what the dot gives you and the irons is going to matter much. Options are good!

I actually used my backup gun at work for the first time in 10 years the other night. I was at the PD cleaning my duty gun. I'd just gotten it back together and I got called to an injured deer in the road. I got there and it was still alive, but missing a leg and had another broken. I shot it with my ankle gun because I hadn't gotten around to cleaning that one yet when the call came out, and was going to have to do it anyway. Options are good! Big Grin
 
Posts: 4242 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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As I read the OP, I found myself thinking "this is a debate I doubt I can form an opinion on" and then I saw that's more or less how you felt about it, Jerry. I guess it's a good problem to have, what with it not being an option some years ago.

I think I find myself lockstep with pedropcola's thoughts on the matter. I voted iron sights as well.

quote:
Originally posted by SIG228:
Sorry, I don't know how to hot link a video.


Now you do. Wink


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Posts: 12534 | Location: Seattle-ish | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
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Iron sights. Sizewise, as unobtrusive/powerful blend as possible. A P365 currently lives inside my extrenal carrier.




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Posts: 12433 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don’t have a bug. My logic would be first to keep it as similar to the primary limited only by carry position. But that’s my general attitude. I only have glocks. And only 19 and 26. All set up the same way - irons and connector. Only odd ball is the slide with the rmr for acclimation. If I’m reactive in a defensive position, I want same not different.




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Posts: 9129 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I voted irons because my BUG has always been a j frame. I carried one for 25 years, on my ankle, in a coat pocket and in a cargo pocket. It worked for me.
 
Posts: 329 | Location: Bluegrass State | Registered: February 09, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I voted iron. I view a BUG as a 'last ditch' effort to save your ass. I don't want anything too complex in that scenario.

I'm a civilian and I regularly carry a BUG. It's usually a little Seecamp in my back pocket or a j-frame or 938 on my ankle. I know the chances of a civilian ever needing a back up is extrodinarily unlikely. However, many of my friends are stupid and don't carry. Therefore, I'll have one available for them should a situation arise. Wink


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Posts: 4454 | Location: DFW, TX | Registered: December 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would vote for caring whatever form of backup you wish, as the argument can be made either way and since it is subjective may as well carry whatever you want. I run irons on my backup pistol but that’s not because I think they are the only way to go, but for a number of reasons like cost and familiarity and similar sighting system with my main weapon, etc.

I’ll happily go optic for everything once the technology gets there, but in my opinion we’re not where I want to be quite yet.


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Posts: 1152 | Location: Oregon | Registered: March 18, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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