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SHOT 2016 Day Two: SIG (pistols, rifles), IWI X95, DT MDR, ETC Login/Join 
Perpetual Student
Picture of Dan
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quote:
Originally posted by WildSig:
quote:
Originally posted by Yuns:
I hate to be constantly negative about Sig at SHOT because they are one of my favorite pistol manufacturers but the following statement concerned me greatly:

So they are going to make X series pistols but they are not going to use any of the experienced talent at the Mastershop and they are not going to use the existing processes. They had to reverse engineer the X series like a clone manufacturer.


This explanation from the thread colt_saa put together in the lounge may give a little more insight into the issue.

quote:
Originally posted by colt_saa:
SIG's fine family of X-Pistols have been missing from the market for more than a year now. We all have heard that the German Government stopped SIG's exportation of firearms. There have been rumors as to why which I will not go into here. The thing that most of us never realized is that not only have the export of products been stopped, but also all intellectual property. This means blue prints, CNC code, etc.

So while SIG here in the US was working on projects that had been on the schedule for years, they also now had to recreate all of the blue prints and documentation for the X-family and then have new CNC code produced.

Well that task is at a stage where SIG is ready to assign a production team to put three models back into the product lineup. This is not just the pistols, but the necessary accessories as well.

Unofficially, we could be seeing X-pistols by the mid summer and possibly at a lower price point that the German guns since currency exchange is no longer in the picture. Smile


It sounds like their hands were tied in getting the existing information over here as far as the guns are concerned. As far as the experienced talent from the Mastershop goes they may have asked some of them to relocate to the United States and were told to take a flying leap. Would you want to uproot your family and move half way around the world?

Having shot the X Series, particularly the XE guns, heavily in competition, I can tell you they are not without their issues. Fatal issues in some cases. The X Series has all of the attributes to shine in NRA Action Pistol, and as that is a discipline in which I find myself heavily focused currently, and being a SIG sponsored shooter, you'd think I'd continue to use this line if they held up. But they haven't in many cases. My AR-E had to be rebuilt after a single season (saying "after" is actually quite generous) and bigger names in the shooting world and on this forum have similar findings. That's not to say they have all suffered this fate; Tracie Rushing, also on the team, continues to hit 200 yard steel with her X5, but I've been advised by Team SIG coach and manager (his name rhymes with Ruce Bray) to not bother trying to make that piece of fine German craftsmanship hold together.

So what's the point here? Only that the mystique of Old World engineering isn't holding up when it comes to this line. The competitive team SIG has put together, the phenomenal volume of fire we've sent down range, the fact that SIG is putting their most talented engineer in the US analog of the Mastershop and finally the fact that Bruce Gray has SIG's ear firmly in hand all leads me to believe the American production of the X Series holds far greater promise than that already in our hands. If it falls short it'll be a shame, but another run at it is better than where we are.


_________________________________
www.facebook.com/DanielLampignanoShooting
 
Posts: 2308 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: May 14, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
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Here's hoping that at least one path to a redesign includes making a much simpler version of the X5. And maybe, just maybe, the 5" 226 that I'm really after.
 
Posts: 19717 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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LDD, steering away from hardware news for a moment, last year's coverage included the mention of additional SIG Academy training sites. Any updates on this ambitious but welcomed idea?
 
Posts: 3515 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
LDD, steering away from hardware news for a moment, last year's coverage included the mention of additional SIG Academy training sites. Any updates on this ambitious but welcomed idea?


It wasn't mentioned. I think the plans are still there, but the Academy is kind of addressed in the interview (transcript forthcoming).

My unsupported speculation (derived from what's said in the interview) is that those plans have been back-burner-ed by the need to shepherd the other business units that came out last year.
 
Posts: 16791 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
And maybe, just maybe, the 5" 226 that I'm really after.


That would tempt me, although I would prefer 6".




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 36355 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dan:
So what's the point here? Only that the mystique of Old World engineering isn't holding up when it comes to this line. The competitive team SIG has put together, the phenomenal volume of fire we've sent down range, the fact that SIG is putting their most talented engineer in the US analog of the Mastershop and finally the fact that Bruce Gray has SIG's ear firmly in hand all leads me to believe the American production of the X Series holds far greater promise than that already in our hands. If it falls short it'll be a shame, but another run at it is better than where we are.
Thanks for the insight on the X series Dan. That was very helpful. I'll withhold judgment until I have an American X series to go with my German ones.
 
Posts: 89 | Registered: August 18, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
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Picture of Modern Day Savage
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LDD:
quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
LDD, steering away from hardware news for a moment, last year's coverage included the mention of additional SIG Academy training sites. Any updates on this ambitious but welcomed idea?


It wasn't mentioned. I think the plans are still there, but the Academy is kind of addressed in the interview (transcript forthcoming).

My unsupported speculation (derived from what's said in the interview) is that those plans have been back-burner-ed by the need to shepherd the other business units that came out last year.


I suspected as much. Sometimes what isn't said is as important as what is said. Wink

Another outstanding year of coverage, sir!
 
Posts: 3515 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
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Picture of Modern Day Savage
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
Here's hoping that at least one path to a redesign includes making a much simpler version of the X5. And maybe, just maybe, the 5" 226 that I'm really after.


Ohhhh, yes! Something along the lines of a P226 Norway or a P226 LDC would really be a tempting buy! Cool
 
Posts: 3515 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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LDD, holy cow! Great job. Any mention of a single stack 320?
 
Posts: 997 | Location: Roswell,GA,USA | Registered: November 14, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sox:
LDD, holy cow! Great job. Any mention of a single stack 320?


None whatsoever.

Philosophically, it's addressed in the interview, but SIG is trying to get better about not talking about things that are not ready for release. I am certain it's being talked about, if nothing more than conceptually. But in whatever form it exists, whether as prototype, napkin sketch, or theory, we won't see it in the next six months.
 
Posts: 16791 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That's all great detailed information and definitely a lot of stuff that has not been reported anywhere else, or is contrary to what has been reported. (P210 Legion, X5's possibly this year) etc. Much appreciated!

It is interesting that there will be no more X5's made in Germany anymore (unless I'm reading that wrong) so guys that have been importing them better do it fast. However, in reality, the X5's while great range guns were never even close to popular/ideal in most competitions and for good reasons. Don't get me wrong I love my X5's but they would not even make the long list with today's available options for any competition I shoot.

I'd question that the P210 lockup is as accurate as the Browning unless SIG plans to include the same 1.5" 50m test targets as proof. Personally I don't care if they only shoot 1.5" at 25m, that's still better than I can shoot, but I believe that decision was more about cost than accuracy.

MPX info is interesting, seems that platform is still evolving (new valve or valve/barrel assembly coming), still no approved/reliable aftermarket trigger options. The magazine change is interesting, I wonder what the downside to the V lips were that drove the change. Given the choice of having the round guided smoothly all the way into the chamber versus popping up and "floating" in it would seem the former would yield more reliable feeding. They need to address the sight issue so people can get standard co-witness options with optics and standard height mounts. They should have simply made a standard height front tower with more elevation adjustment, but that would be more expensive than just shortening the towers. With all the new aftermarket parts for the CZ Scorpion coming, it appears to be a more reliable/appealing platform with less blowback, magazines costing 1/3 of the MPX, better reported QC and reliability, and a ~$700 lower price tag. Aside aesthetics and ergo's the CZ beats it everywhere else, if the LWRC SMG ever gets out of vaporware they could both be in trouble.

The MDR info is great, I was really interested in the platform but will wait awhile to see how it does, there's just too many early customers being used as Beta testers these days. I like the idea of a .308 bullpup, but only if it's rock solid and reliable, especially since the price is closing in on SCAR levels. As you said I see no point for a 6.5 on that platform, unless the plan is to offer a DMR package with a match trigger and longer precision barrel. The CH issue is probably less of an issue if not using an Eotech. An Aimpoint etc. with a riser would likely cause no problems. Even the Acog's are significantly more narrow than the eotech at the rail/mount, especially if one of the low profile non-QR mounts are used.
 
Posts: 46 | Registered: May 23, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by LDD:
No other options, just what was on the wall. The 320 manual safety is going to be a very limited subline of the 320 family. It is inherently incompatible with the rest of the 320s, so it's likely that options for these guns will be kept few and simple.


Could you expand on the "incompatibilities" a bit please. I can see the grip module would need a cut-out for the safety. I must be missing something ... which may well be!

Another big "thank you" for your reports!
 
Posts: 1032 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: January 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:

It is interesting that there will be no more X5's made in Germany anymore


With the P210 and the X5 and X6 ceasing to be produced in Germany, this will be the End of SIG Sauer in Eckernförde. SIG Sauer finally has become a US Company. Not something i am exited about.
 
Posts: 78 | Location: Germany | Registered: January 12, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Any word when the 1911 Nightmare Carry in .357 Sig will be released?


-----------------------------
Always carry. Never tell.
 
Posts: 4969 | Location: Montana  | Registered: May 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Another amazing write up. Thanks.


Bucky Pollard
 
Posts: 470 | Location: Newtown, PA USA | Registered: January 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Please tell me there is a 229 SAO coming out!


"Advertising is the art of convincing people to spend money they don't have for something they don't need"

Will Rogers

SIG 226R Elite SAO
COONAN COMPACT .357 MAG
Dan Wesson CBOB .45
Dan Wesson VALOR .45

Wife and a 7 year old rescue Chocolate Labrador.



 
Posts: 1815 | Location: Ft Myers Florida | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
They're after my Lucky Charms!
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Lord, your ocean is so very large and my divos are so very f****d-up
Dirt Sailors Unite!
 
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