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Big Stack
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^
The main advantage of a striker trigger is the consistent pull, as opposed to DA/SA. But there has been a demonstrated cost in safety. A manual safety, keeping the consistent trigger pull, goes a long way to address this.
 
Posts: 17260 | Registered: November 05, 2003Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Decker:
Any more word on these? Availability? Hands-on experiences?


According to the sellers FB page they are a master dealer and they are stating these are available
 
Posts: 425 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: September 21, 2009Report This Post
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Picture of 3/4Flap
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quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
^
The main advantage of a striker trigger is the consistent pull, as opposed to DA/SA. But there has been a demonstrated cost in safety. A manual safety, keeping the consistent trigger pull, goes a long way to address this.


I don't agree with this. The main advantage I see in "The Glock" {and all its related spawn} is in simplicity of presentation and reholstering. Otherwise, SA a la 1911 would suffice with a far better AND consistent trigger pull shot to shot.

For self defense, I want nothing to do with any pistol that has an applied safety.

Once we go back to putting applied safeties on pistols, we will find out that NG's occur with such equipped pistols, too, just as they did before the Evil Glock made its appearance.


**********************
"For certainly no legislation can be supposed more wholesome and necessary in the founding of a free, self-governing commonwealth, fit to take rank as one of the coordinate States of the Union, than that which seeks to establish it on the basis of the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony"; United States Supreme Court Ruling, Murphy v. Ramsey 1885.
The hardest trail leads to the highest peak.
"A liberal is a person whose immediate interests are not at stake."
 
Posts: 4773 | Location: Idaho, USA | Registered: May 20, 2005Report This Post
Big Stack
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Everyone makes a big deal of how much a manual safety supposedly slows down the use of a gun in a self defense situation. Can anyone have any instances where someone got killed because they couldn't get their manual safety released in time? There are numerous instances where people would have been killed with their own guns, but weren't, because the gun grabber didn't figure out the manual safety. And, yes, while I'm sure there are NDs with manual safety guns, do you want to bet against the fact that the rate is much lower than standard striker fired guns?

If you train the manual safety into your muscle memory, I don't think it slows down getting the shot off. Has anyone don't timer runs with a 1911 vs a Glock. That should tell the tail.

quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
^
The main advantage of a striker trigger is the consistent pull, as opposed to DA/SA. But there has been a demonstrated cost in safety. A manual safety, keeping the consistent trigger pull, goes a long way to address this.


I don't agree with this. The main advantage I see in "The Glock" {and all its related spawn} is in simplicity of presentation and reholstering. Otherwise, SA a la 1911 would suffice with a far better AND consistent trigger pull shot to shot.

For self defense, I want nothing to do with any pistol that has an applied safety.

Once we go back to putting applied safeties on pistols, we will find out that NG's occur with such equipped pistols, too, just as they did before the Evil Glock made its appearance.
 
Posts: 17260 | Registered: November 05, 2003Report This Post
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Picture of 3/4Flap
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Everyone makes a big deal of how much a manual safety supposedly slows down the use of a gun in a self defense situation. Can anyone have any instances where someone got killed because they couldn't get their manual safety released in time? There are numerous instances where people would have been killed with their own guns, but weren't, because the gun grabber didn't figure out the manual safety. And, yes, while I'm sure there are NDs with manual safety guns, do you want to bet against the fact that the rate is much lower than standard striker fired guns?

If you train the manual safety into your muscle memory, I don't think it slows down getting the shot off. Has anyone don't timer runs with a 1911 vs a Glock. That should tell the tail.

quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
^
The main advantage of a striker trigger is the consistent pull, as opposed to DA/SA. But there has been a demonstrated cost in safety. A manual safety, keeping the consistent trigger pull, goes a long way to address this.


I don't agree with this. The main advantage I see in "The Glock" {and all its related spawn} is in simplicity of presentation and reholstering. Otherwise, SA a la 1911 would suffice with a far better AND consistent trigger pull shot to shot.

For self defense, I want nothing to do with any pistol that has an applied safety.

Once we go back to putting applied safeties on pistols, we will find out that NG's occur with such equipped pistols, too, just as they did before the Evil Glock made its appearance.


I don't think it has anything to do with speed if it is used correctly.

The problem isn't speed, the problem is having in "on" when it shouldn't be.

And I have seen that in classes quite a bit with fellows using pistols sporting such devices, and many trainers I've discussed this with have seen it as well. And that is under the less-than-lethal stress of defense classes. Same goes for reholstering SA/DA pistols with the hammer cocked {forgetting to decock}. Just why this is so different with pistols as it is with rifles is a mystery, tho I've seen plenty of flubbing of rifle safeties, too.

I just think the Glock trigger safety system {and those that are copies thereof} is perfect, and see nothing that really has been developed that beats the concept.

Having a safety on a pistol doesn't immediately render the thing a piece of junk, it just changes the manual of arms and operating procedures so as to potentially coax the user into making a mistake at a critical time when such a device is about as necessary as a dewclaw on a hounds leg in the first place.


**********************
"For certainly no legislation can be supposed more wholesome and necessary in the founding of a free, self-governing commonwealth, fit to take rank as one of the coordinate States of the Union, than that which seeks to establish it on the basis of the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony"; United States Supreme Court Ruling, Murphy v. Ramsey 1885.
The hardest trail leads to the highest peak.
"A liberal is a person whose immediate interests are not at stake."
 
Posts: 4773 | Location: Idaho, USA | Registered: May 20, 2005Report This Post
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I ordered one this evening and got the story behind them. We all know Sig has stated that they would not sell the gun commercially until they had a large contract. Well they apparently did. The contract was with a law enforcement agency in Massachusetts. As a result, this is why it is a Mass compliant gun. The seller also stated that these would only be available in this specific config at least for the next year; Mass compliant, compact, medium frame w/night sites.

I asked him about how the frame accommodates the safety. He stated the FCU was a lot harder to get out and not as easy of a swap as the standard 320 or 250. You have to work at it to get it out. He also did not see Sig making exchange kits or having other frames available in the near future or even if at all. He did mention that current frames could be cut to accommodate the slot of the safety. Even thought I have not seen the gun yet, I would not hesitate to purchase a frame and give it a try.

That being said, this pistol may not be that heavily desired. It is by me as I have been waiting for it since the pic of the one in FDE floated around a few years ago. I will post some up close pics once it arrives. I came very close to purchasing a compact medium frame 320 at the last gun show. It was a descent deal but I decided against it. This particular model fits my hand very well. My primary use will be for carry and a significant upgrade from my P238HD.
 
Posts: 425 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: September 21, 2009Report This Post
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Picture of yanici
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quote:
Originally posted by gordynismo:
I ordered one this evening and got the story behind them. We all know Sig has stated that they would not sell the gun commercially until they had a large contract. Well they apparently did. The contract was with a law enforcement agency in Massachusetts. As a result, this is why it is a Mass compliant gun. The seller also stated that these would only be available in this specific config at least for the next year; Mass compliant, compact, medium frame w/night sites.

I asked him about how the frame accommodates the safety. He stated the FCU was a lot harder to get out and not as easy of a swap as the standard 320 or 250. You have to work at it to get it out. He also did not see Sig making exchange kits or having other frames available in the near future or even if at all. He did mention that current frames could be cut to accommodate the slot of the safety. Even thought I have not seen the gun yet, I would not hesitate to purchase a frame and give it a try.

That being said, this pistol may not be that heavily desired. It is by me as I have been waiting for it since the pic of the one in FDE floated around a few years ago. I will post some up close pics once it arrives. I came very close to purchasing a compact medium frame 320 at the last gun show. It was a descent deal but I decided against it. This particular model fits my hand very well. My primary use will be for carry and a significant upgrade from my P238HD.


Very true that the FCU is a bit more difficult to remove in the 320 with the ambi manual safety. Thanks to Sig for not having to put the MA 10# trigger on the gun by installing the thumb safety to make it MA compliant. We have masshole loaded chamber indicator too along with the 10 round mag restriction.

I love my MA P320 9mm compact. The safety is no big deal because all my carry guns have one and I'm used to using it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: yanici,


John

'Technically, It Is Not Illegal To Be Illegal In Massachusetts' ...MA Att. Gen. Martha Coakley
 
Posts: 1741 | Location: N.E. Massachusetts | Registered: June 05, 2009Report This Post
Transplanted Hillbilly
Picture of Fire Away
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I wonder if the MHS submission had a manual safety?
 
Posts: 1678 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: December 08, 1999Report This Post
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A lot of folks are sure making a big deal out of this! I would prefer to have the safety on my 320 - it would make me much more comfortable with a round in the chamber.

It's fairly small and unobtrusive - seems like a win-win to me. If a 320 has a safety, and you want to use it, great. If it does, and you don't want to use it - then ignore it.

Loaded chamber indicator seems like a needless complication to me...
 
Posts: 197 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: September 01, 2000Report This Post
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Picture of 3/4Flap
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quote:
Originally posted by GeoJelly:
A lot of folks are sure making a big deal out of this! I would prefer to have the safety on my 320 - it would make me much more comfortable with a round in the chamber.

It's fairly small and unobtrusive - seems like a win-win to me. If a 320 has a safety, and you want to use it, great. If it does, and you don't want to use it - then ignore it.

Loaded chamber indicator seems like a needless complication to me...


Funny how this stuff goes. I do not want an applied safety mucking up my pistol but I don
Y mind the LCI at all. In fact, I like it. LOL.


**********************
"For certainly no legislation can be supposed more wholesome and necessary in the founding of a free, self-governing commonwealth, fit to take rank as one of the coordinate States of the Union, than that which seeks to establish it on the basis of the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony"; United States Supreme Court Ruling, Murphy v. Ramsey 1885.
The hardest trail leads to the highest peak.
"A liberal is a person whose immediate interests are not at stake."
 
Posts: 4773 | Location: Idaho, USA | Registered: May 20, 2005Report This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
If you train the manual safety into your muscle memory, I don't think it slows down getting the shot off. Has anyone don't timer runs with a 1911 vs a Glock. That should tell the tail.


IF you train is the key. At the IDPA match this weekend, there was a shooter shooting a 1911. After the draw, he waited until he had the gun on target, then used his support thumb to release the safety. He then had to reposition his thumbs to a proper grip. It took him at least a half second extra to break his first shot.


------------------------------
"They who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause."
- Senator Amidala (Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith)
 
Posts: 904 | Location: Southwest Ohio | Registered: October 07, 2011Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Fire Away:
I wonder if the MHS submission had a manual safety?


I would think so. I believe that was one of the many requirements. This is one of the reason folks questioned Glock's entry. I guess we won't know until a manufacturer wins.
 
Posts: 425 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: September 21, 2009Report This Post
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Picture of 3/4Flap
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quote:
Originally posted by RichN:
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
If you train the manual safety into your muscle memory, I don't think it slows down getting the shot off. Has anyone don't timer runs with a 1911 vs a Glock. That should tell the tail.


IF you train is the key. At the IDPA match this weekend, there was a shooter shooting a 1911. After the draw, he waited until he had the gun on target, then used his support thumb to release the safety. He then had to reposition his thumbs to a proper grip. It took him at least a half second extra to break his first shot.



What you describe is exactly what I have seen myself and trainers with a lot of experience have told me the same thing.

Speaking frankly, even under the "stress" of killing stock, I've messed up stuff before. Actually shooting something that's alive always adds a dimension that doesn't exist in the shooting of paper or inanimate "reactive" targets, even when timed. Whether it is the unpredictable nature of what the target is going to do at the last second {like move out of the way} or whether it is the mere taking of a living thing, I can't exactly say but in spite of the literally thousands of animals I've killed {varmints, stock killers, game and butcher stock} there is a difference. If speed is required it just might cause a fumble of some sort.

When my brother who is NOT a gun guy was fishing for a pistol, I told him to try many but recommended something that had no applied safety or decocker. He was quite an athlete {full ride scholarship, very coordinated, awesome golfer, etc} and I KNEW if anybody could manage a pistol he could.

He tried some and when he made his choice went with a NO SAFETY model and thanked me as tho he thought at first he wanted an applied safety on the thing, he came to realize he like many other mortals might mess up when messing up meant something.

Look, Gaston Glock wasn't an idiot. He was a damn smart man. He figured out what human engineering is all about and went on to create a pistol based on reality, not on what "should" be.

No, I don't own a Glock, but Gaston is one of the greats in all-time gun making history, mostly for being honest enough to build a gun around the human, instead of trying to force the human around a gun.


**********************
"For certainly no legislation can be supposed more wholesome and necessary in the founding of a free, self-governing commonwealth, fit to take rank as one of the coordinate States of the Union, than that which seeks to establish it on the basis of the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony"; United States Supreme Court Ruling, Murphy v. Ramsey 1885.
The hardest trail leads to the highest peak.
"A liberal is a person whose immediate interests are not at stake."
 
Posts: 4773 | Location: Idaho, USA | Registered: May 20, 2005Report This Post
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My compact arrived at my FFL today and I picked it up a lunch. I took some pics of the frame and FCU. It does not look like it will not be that tough to remove material in order to accommodate the manual safety into anotherframe. Once you get the hang of removing the FCU, it comes out and goes back in pretty quick and easy. I will probably use my 20% off coupon for registering to order a subcompact exchange kit.













 
Posts: 425 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: September 21, 2009Report This Post
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Picture of Gary1911A1
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Originally posted by H-Man:
I picked up Sig P320 yesterday afternoon at Hunter's Trading Post in Weymouth, MA. I was first on their waiting list having plunked down a $100 deposit in March. With the Sig Night Sights it ran $595 before tax. As to availability, it looks like the MA Compliant Sig P320 Compacts in 9mm hit the shelves yesterday (8/24). As is SOP for MA Compliant pistols your choices of color are black, black, and black and only the 9mm Compacts look to have been shipped. Mine was dirtier than normal suggesting that Sig's quality control staff fired a lot or rounds through the pistol. They do that for law enforcement agencies as part of the contract requirements so this gun was likely part of a law enforcement production run.

There is a tiny cutout on both sides of the grip module to allow the safety to poke through making it ambidextrous. I've been dry-firing with the safety on and it comes off easy enough but I think I'll only use it when holstering. It'll be interesting to see if it's more difficult to disassemble and reassemble with the safety.

The staff at my local gun store said they expect the 320 to be a run away best-seller in Massachusetts. Probably because us civilians aren't allowed to own any Glock's made prior to 1998 which means only Gen I's and Gen II's are legal here. There are lots of Gen III's and IV's on the shelves here but you have to be Law Enforcement to buy them so this Sig P320 will be my first-ever striker fired pistol. (<:


Is the thumb safety mushy when you apply it or does it feel like a good 1911 with a clicking on and off feel to it?
 
Posts: 495 | Location: Southern Ohio for now. | Registered: December 27, 2007Report This Post
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Is the thumb safety mushy when you apply it or does it feel like a good 1911 with a clicking on and off feel to it?


It is a very positive click like one of my custom 1911's. No where near mushy.
 
Posts: 425 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: September 21, 2009Report This Post
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Awesome pictures! Thanks


______________
Sig p938
S&W M&P 9c
 
Posts: 525 | Location: Pearland, Texas | Registered: February 06, 2009Report This Post
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Picture of Gary1911A1
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quote:
Originally posted by gordynismo:
quote:


Is the thumb safety mushy when you apply it or does it feel like a good 1911 with a clicking on and off feel to it?


It is a very positive click like one of my custom 1911's. No where near mushy.


Thank you! Makes the 320 more desirable.
 
Posts: 495 | Location: Southern Ohio for now. | Registered: December 27, 2007Report This Post
Glorious SPAM!
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Excellent pictures, thanks. I'm assuming it works by blocking the sear, corrct?
 
Posts: 6751 | Registered: June 13, 2003Report This Post
When you fall, I will be there to catch you -With love, the floor
Picture of rscalzo
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quote:
We all know Sig has stated that they would not sell the gun commercially until they had a large contract


Not true. Ma compliant have a manual safety as one requirement.


Richard Scalzo
Epping, NH

http://www.bigeastakitarescue.net
 
Posts: 4418 | Location: Epping, NH | Registered: October 16, 2004Report This Post
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