quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
I'm curious as to why it would be so expensive to refurbish the Glocks you now own.
If you sold them and I bought one, I would send it to Glock and they would replace the night sights and anything else needed for free and ship it back for free.

Do they not treat departments the same as individuals?

Not trying to screw up your plans to switch to 9mm but it is curious.

Bruce

They do not treat departments as individuals. Also, Glock gives such a sweet deal to departments on trade-in prices it just makes good sense just to trade the old in for new.

I've never shot a 17 but I own a 19 and a 34. The 19 handles very well, but the 34 is just flat boring (in the best way possible) to shoot. I don't know if it's the added barrel length or what, since they lightened the slide to make it similar weight to a 17, but it's just so flat shooting.

I almost liken it to one of those arcade games that has the pistols where the slide moves as you shoot.

I really need to try a P320, but if I were an LEO I'd feel very good about the 34 on my hip.

I sent them a LE trade in Gen 1 G17. Dead night sights, shot a ton.
I paid to ship it to them. They paid to ship it back.
New night sights and I swear the only original parts left were the slide, frame, and barrel. Nobody ever mentioned payment.

Maybe they only do it for individuals, but they've done it for me, more than once now.

YMMV,

Bruce

Our P229R DAKs will be 13 this year...yeah.

Campus PD in the neighboring city just got P320s in 9mm and are the envy of all the gun guys. I think we will go that way, hopefully by fall.

Glock is not going to refurbish guns for an agency, especially an entire agency, for free. The cost of new magazines ($60 for 3) and night sights only ($75-$120/set) is more than the agency will pay for new guns after trade-in. Agencies are also completely unable to just deadline their guns and send them off and wait. At least for an entire department. We went through this last year at my joint and I would imagine that we ended up paying about $120-$140 each for the new guns after trade-in. Almost worth it just for the new magazines.

I got the go ahead to do our switchover next year. Just need final numbers so my chief can budget it in for next year. He said it would not come out of my ammo budget.

That was easier than I thought it would be.

Thank you for the info Mr. Jones!

Stay safe everyone!

What will be your duty load for the 34s?

Based upon ballistics testing either a Hornady 135 grain Critical Duty or the good old standby Gold Dot 124 grain

I love Glock 9mm handguns. The reliability is just amazing. I own 2 P320s, and after a few months of running them, I've eased back into Glocks. It's like shaking hands with an old friend.

At the police academy where I teach, .40 is still king. It's not even close. We have 57 students this semester. 45 or so shoot G22s, 10 shoot G21s, and then we have a G17 and a M&P 9mm. A semester ago, a few of our smaller-statured officers couldn't qualify with their G22s despite exhaustive training and individual attention by instructors. After receiving permission to transition to G17s from their department heads, they all qualified with minimal effort, including one who actually shot "expert" scores according to state regulations.

All this along with top notch reliability makes firearms training with Glocks a joy.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Based upon ballistics testing either a Hornady 135 grain Critical Duty or the good old standby Gold Dot 124 grain

I have a Gen2 G17, Gen3 G19, Gen3 G34, and a Gen4 G34. They all shoot extremely well with the Hornady Critical Duty 135 grain load. I am amazed how accurate this load is in all of my 9mm handguns.

around how many rounds on the average does your 10 year old duty Glocks fire to need a rebuild or total replacemnet? isn't it most issued Glocks are mostly carried but shot little so not much wear and tear on internal parts?

quote:

Originally posted by scott220:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Based upon ballistics testing either a Hornady 135 grain Critical Duty or the good old standby Gold Dot 124 grain

I have a Gen2 G17, Gen3 G19, Gen3 G34, and a Gen4 G34. They all shoot extremely well with the Hornady Critical Duty 135 grain load. I am amazed how accurate this load is in all of my 9mm handguns.

Critical duty is what we carry as well in our .40 duty guns and in any 9mm backups. Those rounds are very good from everything I've seen. There's only been one gun I know of that won't chamber them and it was an XDS. I wish we would switch to 9mm.

quote:

Originally posted by cooger:

quote:

Originally posted by scott220:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Based upon ballistics testing either a Hornady 135 grain Critical Duty or the good old standby Gold Dot 124 grain

I have a Gen2 G17, Gen3 G19, Gen3 G34, and a Gen4 G34. They all shoot extremely well with the Hornady Critical Duty 135 grain load. I am amazed how accurate this load is in all of my 9mm handguns.

Critical duty is what we carry as well in our .40 duty guns and in any 9mm backups. Those rounds are very good from everything I've seen. There's only been one gun I know of that won't chamber them and it was an XDS. I wish we would switch to 9mm.

We hosted Hornady a couple of years ago on a ballistic shoot. The Critical Duty performed really, really well. Some of my guys have been carrying it in their backup/off duty guns. I know one guy that finished a deer off with a G26 while deer hunting. Best I recall it was a single shot to the base of the skull. When they butchered the deer, he fished out the round as they were cutting out the back strap. He showed the round a couple of days later. Looked as if you'd shot it into gel. It expanded perfectly, despite going through the skull cap.

As I understand it right now, the Critical Duty isn't on the state contract, so that is providing problems for me. The Gold Dot is. I keep hearing rumors (from the state police) that they are wanting to adopt the Critical Duty. I guess someone will have to step up and bid it to put it on contract.

quote:

Originally posted by perrinyanna:
around how many rounds on the average does your 10 year old duty Glocks fire to need a rebuild or total replacemnet? isn't it most issued Glocks are mostly carried but shot little so not much wear and tear on internal parts?

Depends on the department and the officer.
I know two of us shoot at minimum 1,000 rounds a month each on our 31s.
We buy our own RSAs every year just to be cautious.

At ten years night sights should be replaced at the bare minimum. For the cost of night sights plus $30 give or take we might as well get new guns for everyone.

Last year Kiesslers tried to get me to trade in our guns for new ones at $75@. You can't beat that!

quote:

Originally posted by perrinyanna:
around how many rounds on the average does your 10 year old duty Glocks fire to need a rebuild or total replacemnet? isn't it most issued Glocks are mostly carried but shot little so not much wear and tear on internal parts?

I don't think you are quite getting the jist here. But, in these threads few do unless they have been involved in LE. People just see these threads (and I'm suprised our resident "When I was in LE for six months in 1974 and we bought our own oxygen" expert hasn't shown up) and assume it is a ploy to get new toys because we can. True, some guns are shot very little. About a 1,000 rounds a year. However, guns like mine (and several other SWAT guys I know) will be needing new barrels and other replacement parts soon. The grouping on mine has really opened up over the last six months at 25 yards. And I'm sure most of the internals are in need of being replaced.

Ever seen a "carried a lot/shot very little" LE trade? Most look horrible. Because the ones that won't shoot a lot, also won't take care of it. I've found all sorts of crap and crud inside of Glocks on detail strips. Stuff that shouldn't be present on normal wear and tear. Stuff that anyone that cared about their guns wouldn't allow happen.

Then there is night sights. They start the clock when they are manufactured, not when they are installed on pistols. Magazines are NOT life time items. We still have some in service that are marked LE/MIL only. when you weigh the cost of new night sights, and magazines alone, you get real close to the difference in trading for new guns. Swapping the internal parts has very little influence on the overall cost when you look at the numbers.

When you look at the broad make up of US law enforcement agencies, few have full time dedicated armorers. I work for a large agency, and my instructional position is not even a full time gig. Let alone working on guns. So, to take me off the road to detail strip, inspect, replace night sights and whatnot, is overtime that has to be paid to cover my position.

When you look at the total line items, it is much more economical to trade for new guns about every 10 years. Glock makes the most money off of selling the trade ins. These are life saving tools. I have two guns that I had to take out of service last month because of multiple malfunctions that weren't shooter related. One was "shot little/carried a lot". Either it has to be rebuilt or replaced.

I get what you guys are saying from the gun world perspective, but there is a whole lot more to it than just that.

quote:

Originally posted by Chowser:


I know two of us shoot at minimum 1,000 rounds a month each on our 31s.
We buy our own RSAs every year just to be cautious.

I believe Glock recommends RSA replacement every 4-5000 rounds, which would be every few months for you. I believe the Glock RSA's will go a whole lot longer than that, of course.

Jones thanks for all the information you share, and even though i have a P320 compact that is growing on me, i have invested more time and money into glocks.

For me now that i switched to AIWB i can carry my 19 or 17 with X300U fairly easily and much quicker to draw than when i carried a 26 or bare 19 at 4 o'clock.

Very interesting on the critical duty, and while the expansion is a bit less than HST and others, the penetration seems to beat most in more situations.

quote:

AIWB i can carry my 19 or 17 with X300U

Zoinks! That just sounds painful to me with the light. I've yet to find any IWB holster that was comfortable with a light.

If I carry a light, I carry OWB. If I carry IWB, it is without a light.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

AIWB i can carry my 19 or 17 with X300U

Zoinks! That just sounds painful to me with the light. I've yet to find any IWB holster that was comfortable with a light.

If I carry a light, I carry OWB. If I carry IWB, it is without a light.

It's taken some trial and error, and about a half a dozen holsters, but these from GunCraft and Tier 1 concealment have suited me well.

GunCraft


Tier 1

That doesn't look much thicker than the pistol without the light. Is it?