SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  SIG Pistols    Hand gun for adaptive shooter
Page 1 2 3 

Moderators: Chris Orndorff, LDD
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Hand gun for adaptive shooter Login/Join 
The Persian
Picture of PPGMD
posted Hide Post
These are things I've been thinking about. As a leg amputee, I've been asked by an instructor to help teach disabled Vets overcoming their difficulty and return to shooting.

To anyone suggesting a revolver I suggest try reloading a revolver with one hand. That shit is hard to do with two hands, videos of Jerry, and lots of practice. Honestly I can't think of a good way to get it done one handed particularly left handed.

She is going to need to learn and master techniques that many will not consider normal. And use gear that wouldn't be typical of a normal concealed carrier (for example her magazines will have to be accessible with her left hand). But most of it can be done without pointing the gun at herself or others.

If she is in Dallas with you, you do have a couple of options for local instructors that I've personally trained with and can recommend. The first is Tiger Valley, TJ runs a solid shooting school. The second I am not sure if he is in the civilian side of business anymore, is Steve Moses he used to operate under the name of Bluff Dale Tactical, but I couldn't find them a couple of years ago. There are probably more but I haven't been in Dallas for a few years, the best person to ask is probably Bryan Black, he is over in Fort Worth he is a NSW Former Action Guy, and runs ITS Tactical.

ETA: I decided to try finding Steve again, it seems he is over in Tyler now, working with a group called Citadel Armory. It was a lot easier to find him due to connections on Facebook.


-------
A turbo: Exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens, and you go faster.

Mr. Doom and Gloom
"King in the north!"
"Slow is smooth... and also slow.
 
Posts: 20052 | Location: At the wall | Registered: February 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yew got a spider
on yo head
Picture of DoctorSolo
posted Hide Post
^^^
I was gonna say the same thing about revolvers, mag fed has to be easier one handed.

great post
 
Posts: 3934 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: April 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Cobra21
posted Hide Post
Well, I disagree....ever try loading a mag one handed? I'm sure either one would be difficult, but seems like you could get revolver operable with a handful of bullits more easily than you could a semi.


Risk the consequences of honesty...
 
Posts: 3673 | Location: DFW, TX | Registered: December 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Persian
Picture of PPGMD
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cobra21:
Well, I disagree....ever try loading a mag one handed? I'm sure either one would be difficult, but seems like you could get revolver operable with a handful of bullits more easily than you could a semi.


True, loading a magazine one handed would be difficult. I can think of a couple of ways, but none of them easy. But loading a magazine is an administrative task, something that I think it would be perfectly acceptable that she could get help with.

OTOH if she is planning to use the gun defensively loading the gun should be a task that she should be able to do herself. With an autoloader there are a couple of techniques that she can use to load it pretty easily one handed.

ETA: I pulled out a Glock 19 mag and tried loading it one handed with my left hand. It isn't easy, but it was doable, you basically have to push the round down with the round you are loading. I thought the Glock magazine loader would make it easier, but it didn't. The UpLula sort of worked, but I think loading it by hand might be more reliable. The new ETS Mag Loader might work, if it retains the load against the table feature that the B&T mag loader it is based on has.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: PPGMD,


-------
A turbo: Exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens, and you go faster.

Mr. Doom and Gloom
"King in the north!"
"Slow is smooth... and also slow.
 
Posts: 20052 | Location: At the wall | Registered: February 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Even if one loads revolver with one hand AND one has the best double-action trigger pull that a gunsmith can craft - it is still going to require noticeable force to pull the trigger.

Back to the starter pistol in 22LR such as Ruger 22/45 Lite: The Lula people make a device to aid in loading single stack 22LR magazines that temporarily latches. One pushes the device down, load to top, push the device down more and load to top. Using device and a base for bottom of mag, one can load using one hand. Still wise to have a stick to run up barrel to cock and a Halo on the back can be used.


Mac in Michigan
 
Posts: 261 | Location: Below the Bridge in Michigan | Registered: July 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
We worked on loading the magazine last night and just took it slow. Steps we were using;

if gun is in hand;
- Release magazine and allow it to drop to the floor
- Place gun back in holster on left side
- Index mag (located behind holster)
- Slide mag into gun while still in holster
- Remove gun gripping at base of stock/grip
- In one motion - move hand and seat mag on left leg being sure to keep muzzle pointed away.
- Rack gun on belt.
- Back in business

Hardest thing still is racking the gun. we have tried a few different ways and all are doable if you take your time. But in a situation where adrenaline is flowing and dexterity is not all there... its tuff... If she does a tactical reload, we do all the same, but it does not require a re-rack... She liked this obviously, but counting rounds in a stressful situation would be tuff..

At tha point you just hope muscle memory takes over and you don't rush it and make mistakes. If anyone has any other ideas or options, let me know... I am all ears when it comes to trying new ideas.

Roger


Sig P229 - .40
Sig M11-A1 - 9MM
Sig 938 - 9MM
Dan Wesson CCO
Wilson ADP
 
Posts: 67 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: March 19, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
What about suppressor sights? They are tall enough to give her a larger racking surface.

I would suggest carry in front of the 3-9 hip plane, Giving her better visibility when reloading with the gun holstered.

As for guns: it may sound odd, but you might try a full size USP. It is extremely easy to rack the slide, it's ambi, can be set up with the LEM trigger and holds lots of rounds. Even though getting proficient with reloading is a must, I would rather not do it in a gun fight. If this gun is for CC, than a USP may be too big.

Kudos for being a great father!


"Living among the enemy behind the Tofu Curtain"
 
Posts: 1844 | Location: California, USA | Registered: January 21, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by captain127:
A traditionally set up 1911 allows you to push the recoil guide area of the slide against a firm object to get the gun racked after a reload and as opposed to most "modern" full length guide for guns, and is a bit more forgiving of limp wristing. Do not discount the revolver either- push cylinder latch and drag cylinder against leg to open tip upside down and strike ejector against hard object with cylinder open put gun into belt or holster drop in speedloader or moon clip grab push against leg and keep shooting quicker than it sounds actually
 
Posts: 1967 | Location: Finally free in AZ! | Registered: February 14, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
A traditionally set up 1911 allows you to push the recoil guide area of the slide against a firm object to get the gun racked after a reload and s opposed to most "modern" full length guide for guns, and is a bit more forgiving of limp wristing. Do not discount the revolver either- push cylinder latch and drag cylinder against leg to open tip upside down and stole ejector Avis st hard object with cylinder open put gun into belt or holster drop in speedloader or moon clip grab push against leg and keep shooting quicker than it sounds actually
 
Posts: 1967 | Location: Finally free in AZ! | Registered: February 14, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
We gonna get some
oojima in this house!
Picture of smithnsig
posted Hide Post
I find single stack 9 mm are the easiest to shoot one handed. PPS or XDS


-----------------------------------------------------------
9mm
.38 special
7.62x39
.308
 
Posts: 4863 | Location: BPensacola, Florida | Registered: September 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I know a bit about XDs 9mm 4"
Overhauled one - a real pain - to the point that it had a fairly good trigger and better sights. Did it for one who was not strong. Shot well in IDPA competition except when it came to changing magazines. The mag. button's spring had not been lightened - just did not think of it.

A factory XDs 4 9mm is in need of major work to make usable. Accurate, good grip (not quite Walther, but good) and OK when just about everything except the barrel is fixed. Not fun to put back together. Have a tool just for putting the last spring in place.

PPS-M2 I find to be OK out of the box. I have not ever seen a less fussy eater of 9mm. I save rounds that do not quite measure up, and the PPS-M2 fires them without a hitch. But it is the only pistol that I felt needed, and received, Tallon grips. Short barrel. Great to 7 yards, but not so great past 7 yards. Sights on LE edition are good. Avoid PPS-M1- triggers of everyone I have felt are not nice.

The pistol most easy to use is Walther CCP. Need tool and some skill to open and to close for cleaning - and its design needs more frequent cleaning. Easy to rack. Fixed barrel leads to good accuracy. 8 round magazines. Great grip.

It is wonderful that you two can work together in this sojurn. Look forward to learn of your progress. Mac


Mac in Michigan
 
Posts: 261 | Location: Below the Bridge in Michigan | Registered: July 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
FN 57 is light, low recoil and easy to rack

I have one. It is an expensive gun but has the recoil of a 22lr, 20 round magazine, and ambidextrous controls. Easy to rack and shoot well one handed. They also make a mag loader that is easily operated with one hand.
 
Posts: 582 | Location: MS GULF COAST | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's not you,
it's me.
Picture of RAMIUS
posted Hide Post
The only reason I can think of for her to use a revolver is the possibility she might limp wrist a semi auto, causing a malfunction.

Otherwise, high cap semi auto.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Totus Tuus

 
Posts: 3544 | Location: Philadelphia, Pa | Registered: September 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
FN 57 is interesting for this purpose. Did some reading about the FN 57 and it does look as if it would be relatively easy to rack and load and soft shooting. It is also on the light side of other choices.

The round used is not included in any of the types of competitions that I know about, but that is not a part of this task. A local indoor range does not allow use of the round for fear of damage. Might need to find a range that does allow training with this round.


Mac in Michigan
 
Posts: 261 | Location: Below the Bridge in Michigan | Registered: July 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The steps described above will get the gun reloaded with the minimum of fuss. The one-handed shooter here does it that way. He has a cocking handle added to his pistol to give purchase on the re-rack.

As far as those "stressful situations" go, a double column 9mm with 15-20 shots on tap is a great stress relief. If she needs more than that the situation is grave indeed.

If I had to load magazines onehanded, I would ask somebody to make me a box like receptacle to keep the darn thing from wiggling loose. Something that could be clamped to a tabletop.
 
Posts: 2538 | Location: Florence, Alabama, USA | Registered: July 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Nipper
posted Hide Post
Too bad nobody makes any 9mm with tip-up barrels. Beretta used to make a .380 with one.

I own a Sig P320C 9mm and would consider that a possibility.
Reasons:

1) Ambi slide lock levers standard.

2) Reversible mag release.

3) Pistol is a "natural shooter". Means I don't have to do any work, other than apply decent fundamentals. Very tolerant of minor flaws in technique.

4) Easy hits using only left hand (or right hand). Points naturally right to POI

5) Less effort to rack slide with 9mm, compared to larger calibers or blowback .380's (heavy recoil spring).

6) My own P320 is impervious to poor grip. Never had any shooter induced problems in fast defensive draw/fire drills and weird shooting positions. It also passes the same test as all my other carry guns. Using thumb and one finger grip I rotate the gun and fire from four orientations: Zero, 90, 180 and 270 degrees. Gun is reliable with mid-range reloads, ball and +P+ defensive ammo.

7) Can also use the Compact slide on SC grip. Much more concealable. I have the SC Small no-rail. Still gives you 12 rounds.

8) Can select one of three different size grip frame modules to properly fit her hand. Fit is always important...even more so when shooting with one hand.

9) Reasonable weight. With 16 rounds of 115 gr 9mm, weighs 32 oz.

Regarding slide racking. All pistols will have the same issue. The following links may give you some more ideas. I'm not endorsing them, just stuff I dragged up with Google.

Slide rack device:
https://kitup.military.com/201...d-slide-racking.html
https://www.skdtac.com/TacRack-Glock-p/tac.102.htm

One hand slide rack discussion:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1...shoot_yourself_.html

Mostly two hands, but might give you some ideas:
https://www.usacarry.com/racki...upplement-technique/

Some odd stuff (holsters):
http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/c-equip_belts.htm

Regarding slide racking for carry, there are only two likely scenarios, apart from malfunctions. Pistol will obviously be carried with round in chamber. (1) If mag reload done before empty, it's just a tac-reload mag withdrawal (drop in pocket or belt) and insertion. No slide handling. (2) If reload done after mag empty (slide lock), it's just a mag drop, insertion and slide release lever. Whatever pistol you get her, make sure it's not prone to thumb on slide lock lever issue. The redesigned smaller P320 lever should be fine.

IMHO, ANY type of malfunction in a gunfight is problematic, even with two hands. I personally don't spend much time with malfunction clearance drills for my defensive shooting. I ain't going to be standing in the open in the middle of a gunfight hoping I'm going to get lucky, diagnose the stoppage correctly and then successfully clear it. I'm either running for cover and/or drawing my BUG.

I also own revolvers, Glocks, Sig DA/SA's, and 1911's. If I was only able to shoot with one hand, I'd select my P320.


______________________
An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler
 
Posts: 3589 | Location: Northeast | Registered: June 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
The round used is not included in any of the types of competitions that I know about, but that is not a part of this task. A local indoor range does not allow use of the round for fear of damage. Might need to find a range that does allow training with this round.

I am able to shoot the FN 57 at my outdoor range, but I make it a point not to shoot steel plates with it at close ranges. I have no trouble racking the slide at all and if she could shoot one she might very well like it. It packs a pretty good punch to the target and not your hand or wrist.
 
Posts: 582 | Location: MS GULF COAST | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unknown
Stuntman
Picture of bionic218
posted Hide Post
I'd think a HK P30 or P30SK of the LEM variety might do the trick.

Some keys are; 1. very few controls and completely ambi capable 2. the slide lock/release is huge 3. paddle style magazine release 4. a true hammer fired gun with a consistent but light trigger.

It's an interesting process, but looking at it from her view, those are the type of features I'd be looking for.

Best of luck with it.
 
Posts: 9509 | Location: missouri | Registered: October 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Squishy:
quote:
Originally posted by BuddyChryst:
Gotta take her to the range to see what she likes. Rent a lot of guns.

Things I would suggest trying:
Ambi controls
Paddle mag release (VP9/PPQ M1), though most buttons can be switched to the other side
Sights that have a ledge (to rack against belt or whatever)
Striker fired, maybe SAO with safety (if ambi)
9mm
Aggressive grips

Things I would suggest avoiding:
Heavy trigger pulls (DA/SA)-without a support hand, it may be difficult to hold the sight picture
Revolvers (hard to reload, and likely heavy pull)
Sub-Compact/pocket pistols.

Thing that she'll have to figure out:
Weight/size. A heavier pistol will make her tire quicker one handed. Conversely, a heavy pistol won't recoil as bad. A small pistol may be easier to hold steady, but will jump a lot more. A larger pistol will probably be easier to hold between her legs to reload. Smaller, lighter pistols are also more likely to be sprung heavy, which may be difficult to rack.

Whatever pistol she chooses, it may help her to cant the pistol slightly when shooting. If you make a fist then punch straight out and hold it, you'll probably notice your hand is tilted, not vertical. So canting the pistol for one handed shooting can feel more natural.

Finally, I don't know your relationship with her, but often our closest loved ones are hard to teach. Patience gets lost quickly and polite suggestions get taken as criticism. Having her take a class is a great idea dad!!!

Good luck, I don't know either of you but I'm proud of both of you!


Very informative post, thank you. The only thing she has tried thus far was my Mrs 938. She did OK with it, but I want to make sure I try a few so she can figure out what she feels the most comfortable with.

A wiser man than I once told me; two things you should never do... teach your Mrs to drive a manual transmission car and the other is shoot, Haha. For her, muscle memory will be key... I need her to not develop any of my bad habits that would be tuff to break.


I am not sure if your daughter is against a .380 semi and if she is not, I would suggest the SIG P238. As you probably know it is exactly like the P938 just a bit smaller in size, caliber and weight.

My wife is 5', 110 pounds.. the P938 was a bit too snappy for her but the P238 was perfect.

Hers has the rubber grip and that made it even better.

Anyway I hope this helps and I am glad to see you two working through this together.. the way it should be.. :-)
 
Posts: 5 | Registered: March 02, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Cobra21
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by P320Mac:
Even if one loads revolver with one hand AND one has the best double-action trigger pull that a gunsmith can craft - it is still going to require noticeable force to pull the trigger.

Back to the starter pistol in 22LR such as Ruger 22/45 Lite: The Lula people make a device to aid in loading single stack 22LR magazines that temporarily latches. One pushes the device down, load to top, push the device down more and load to top. Using device and a base for bottom of mag, one can load using one hand. Still wise to have a stick to run up barrel to cock and a Halo on the back can be used.


This might be true, but I can thumb cock my DA/SA revolvers one-handed with no problem...and the SA pull, as most of you know, is light, short, and crisp.


Risk the consequences of honesty...
 
Posts: 3673 | Location: DFW, TX | Registered: December 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  SIG Pistols    Hand gun for adaptive shooter

© SIGforum 2017