Some years ago there was a trend for full length guide rods in 1911s. It was supposedly the only way to go. Now, no one seems to really care and even higher end commercial guns have standard GI guide rods. Not sure about custom.

There was also a trend to replace SIG polymer with metal or stainless steel, or replace the standard SIG metal guide rod with stainless, perhaps for looks, weight, durability....

What are the pros and cons...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SIGWolf,

Largely a personal preference.

It depends on the platform and application of the platform, competition handguns seems like heavy full guide rod to control muzzle rise and also uncapture to be able to change spring rate. Overall I go with if isn't broke don't fix it, unless you know what you are doing I wouldn't change much from factory settings because in the long run you can potentially create a lot of problems.

I remember when my cheap little KelTec P11 was he only pistol I had.
Over on the KT forum, people would occasionally pop up asking about a metal guide rod replacement.

At least on the KT, they advise against it on the 9mm versions, and only recommend the metal rod for the 357Sig/40S&W version. Reason I always saw was that the metal rod tended to peen the bottom of the barrel too much.

Supposedly, not a major issue, and not one likely to induce a failure, just something KT advised against.

Speaking with several 1911 experts and manufacturers, they all recommend standard GI the way JMB designed it. Full length guide rods supposedly are less likely to kink the recoil spring but that's just theory. I've seen several FLGRs break and totally tie up the gun.

On Sigs, I believe the steel ones were to add weight up front to help with shootability, but I've never really bought into that.

I don't like them in 1911s, and changed out the two piece FLGR in my Springfield for an Ed Brown GI setup.

As for SIGs, there's an argument to be made for the GrayGuns Custom FAT Guide Rod to reduce spring wear and add mass at the muzzle.

I have an SA Trophy Match with a FLGR, never a problem. My MC Operator has the standard GI, never a problem with it either.

I replace the plastic Sig guiderods with steel, I stopped replacing the standard Sig steel guiderods with afternmarket steel.

My Beretta 92G came with a plastic guiderod, I replaced it with steel.

I had a plastic guide rod in a Sig P239 get twisted up inside so bad I had to return the gun to Sig. Since then, I replace any plastic rods with steel. I have a mixture of steel GI and FLGRs in my guns, and never had any problems with either.

I don't think 1911s need a full length guide rod to begin with, but if you must, make it a one-piece. The threaded joint in a two-piece is a stress concentration and prone to breakage. If you've ever broken a segmented long gun cleaning rod, you'll know what I mean.

quote:

Originally posted by 19tass:
I had a plastic guide rod in a Sig P239 get twisted up inside so bad I had to return the gun to Sig. Since then, I replace any plastic rods with steel. I have a mixture of steel GI and FLGRs in my guns, and never had any problems with either.

A story like this makes me ask why anyone thought a plastic GR is a good idea.

I really wish I could find a metallic guide rod for my P229 22LR conversion slide. I don't see any out there.

I've never had an issue with a plastic guide rod although I can see how wear might be an issue, but never really seen it happen or cause an issue, but then I don't shoot 1000s of rounds.

I've never had an issue with the GI length 1911 guide rod or short metal guiderods in other guns either. It just seemed to be a given for a while that a full length was the premium way to go. Now, not so much.

On my SIG pistols I often replaced the metal guide rod with stainless steel for heft and appearance. But again, never had an issue with the hollow metal rods that were OEM.

I've seen a method for disassembling and reassembling a 1911 where you do not use a bushing tool at all. Disassembly is not an issue for me with a GI guide rod, but reassembly is difficult when the spring can bulge out all over the place when putting the slide back on. Perhaps with practice it wouldn't be an issue.

I have a 10mm DW Bruin that has a slanted plug and using a bushing wrench is rather precarious and getting the plug straight is a pain. Reassembling without a tool would be much easier in that case.

I will first say I am by no means an expert. BUT, STI puts them in all their guns and all my full size 1991's have a STI recoil master guide rod.

If you have never seen one it is similar to the rod in a small handgun with two springs to mitigate recoil and make racking easier. My Kimber Raptor (which was used in USPSA Limited 10 for years) worked great and never failed with it.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:

quote:

Originally posted by 19tass:
I had a plastic guide rod in a Sig P239 get twisted up inside so bad I had to return the gun to Sig. Since then, I replace any plastic rods with steel. I have a mixture of steel GI and FLGRs in my guns, and never had any problems with either.

A story like this makes me ask why anyone thought a plastic GR is a good idea.

Well, Colt did... And for a very good reason.

When the Delta Elite was developed, they realized some changes needed to made to accommodate the hotter 10mm round. One of the modifications they made was to replace the traditional steel GI guide rod with one made of polymer which allowed for dual recoil springs. While a lot of Delta owners replace this part with a traditional steel guide rod, there is a reason Colt went with the polymer version.

It acts as a buffer between the slide and frame. Much like a Wilson Shock Buff, except that it maintains the factory standard slide travel. The polymer guide rod is intended to be a replaceable part when the recoil springs are changed. It takes the battering instead of the frame.

For that reason, I wish more manufacturers would follow that design principle, particularly with pistols like my Dan Wesson Vigil commander that has an alloy frame. I could see replacing all my 1911 GI guide rods with polymer models. It makes good sense to me as a means to extend the lifespan of pistol frames.

^^Interesting! Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
^^Interesting! Thanks.

Yes, never heard that before.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:

quote:

Originally posted by 19tass:
I had a plastic guide rod in a Sig P239 get twisted up inside so bad I had to return the gun to Sig. Since then, I replace any plastic rods with steel. I have a mixture of steel GI and FLGRs in my guns, and never had any problems with either.

A story like this makes me ask why anyone thought a plastic GR is a good idea.

I have a SIGSauer factory cutaway model and whenever I read such storys I do a credibility check with it.
Bending/warping a guiding rod inside the dustcover is not possible because:
- there is no load on the rod except for the spring weight that is pushing it into the locking block. It takes some force to bend or warp something. Where should this force come from?
- there is not enough space between barrel and dust cover to bend a spring surrouned guiding rod until it breaks or warps, regardless what material it´s made of.

quote:

Originally posted by OTD:

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:

quote:

Originally posted by 19tass:
I had a plastic guide rod in a Sig P239 get twisted up inside so bad I had to return the gun to Sig. Since then, I replace any plastic rods with steel. I have a mixture of steel GI and FLGRs in my guns, and never had any problems with either.

A story like this makes me ask why anyone thought a plastic GR is a good idea.

I have a SIGSauer factory cutaway model and whenever I read such storys I do a credibility check with it.
Bending/warping a guiding rod inside the dustcover is not possible because:
- there is no load on the rod except for the spring weight that is pushing it into the locking block. It takes some force to bend or warp something. Where should this force come from?
- there is not enough space between barrel and dust cover to bend a spring surrouned guiding rod until it breaks or warps, regardless what material it´s made of.

Despite your "credibility check" this is EXACTLY what happened to me. The rod was twisted up so bad I could not get the gun apart (factory FMJ ammo, no +P or anything exotic). So you see, everything is not as neat and pretty as it is in your theoretical world.