The Whack-Job
Whisperer
| Back in the day, armed with revolvers, I carried a 2.5 inch 66-2 as an off duty/BUG. Then later a 640-1 in either a Galco ankle holster or Uncle Mikes vest holster. Later I went to the 3913 as an off duty/BUG. And twards the end a 4513TSW. Now retired from Investigations, but still serving as a Magistrate, I carry either a CS45 or CS9. And I wish I had one back when I was still working the streets. Regards 18DAI
7+1 Rounds of hope and change
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| I have 17 years on with a large agency. I tried carrying a backup once and never tried again. And I'm a gun guy that still works a proactive unit. I simply have enough crap on me as it is. I wear level III+ plates and carrier, radio, earpiece, 2 sets of cuffs, OC spray, TASER, med kit, extra TQ, my duty gun with 3 extra mags, multi-tool, and a 30rd AR mag. I know better but I simply refuse to attach something else to me and they still expect me to get out here and chase bad guys. |
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| quote: Originally posted by Wreckless:
My agency would not allow a BUG. It was verboten.
Non-LEO here, risking thread drift: why would an agency forbid a backup?
God bless America. |
| | | Posts: 13482 | Location: The mountainous part of Hokie Nation! | Registered: July 15, 2007 | 
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| Because they would think you might use it as a "throwdown". And they did not want to train you with it or supply ammo.
End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
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| The Idiot checking in .... I have been a sworn and certified Peace Officer in the great State of Georgia for over 30 years. I pretty much carry the same stuff off duty as on. A lull size Glock 17 or 22 and a Smith Airweight .38 off duty. Two mags, flex cuffs, a flashlight aand a 16 inch ASP baton. In those years on duty I carried 2 Glock 22's on duty with spare mags. As I say when things get muddy , bloody or sweaty it is hard to hold on to a small backup handgun. Off duty I carry full size weapons also either a Sig 226, Glock 17,22 or a full size 1911. I shoot these pistols better than the smaller ones. In my thinking the firearm you carry should be viewed like casting for a porn movie, you have to go big when things get exciting. I have had several events happen off duty that I could not walk away from it was comforting to have the gear I needed when those occured. Clint Smith stated it perfectly " Carrying a gun is not always comfortable but it is comforting". You must remember you will run out of ammo before you run out of problems, so carry extra ammo. for the officer that only is forced to carry only one weapon on duty advise your command that your widow will sue for 87 billion dollars if you are killed when a backup weapon would have saved your life. If you choose not to carry when you have the option remember all firearms can and will break when you most likey need them the most. Yep as a range instructor for LE and citizens from high dollar to bargan basement all firearms fail so carry two on or off duty. Sorry for the ramble long day...VI |
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| quote: Originally posted by HCM:
Policing is regional and even within regions certain agencies take things like fire arms and firearms training more seriously than others.
Other than a few years with a G26 I’ve carried some type J frame .38 as a BUG on duty for the better part of 24 years. Currently a S&W M&P 340 with .38 plus P Gold dots. The G26 is just too big and heavy to be a true BUG. I always carry off duty but don’t normally carry a BUG off duty.
I will forego the BUG when carrying a long gun, as the long gun is then primary and the duty pistol is secondary.
I work in plain clothes so maybe 10-15% of my co-workers regularly carry a BUG. Another 10-15% will throw on a BUG if going to do a planned operation.
The other issue is guys walking around with just a BUG (G43 or J frame) on duty or wearing just the BUG on planned operations like surveillance, arrest and search warrants etc. unsurprisingly these are usually the same people who barely qualify.
As noted some agencies prohibit backup guns. They may claim they prohibit them due to worries about throw downs but that is not a realistic concern. The real reason is those agencies 1) don’t give a damn about their people’s lives and 2) don’t want to be bothered with the administrative tracking and qualifications for a second gun.
BUGs were common when revolvers were the primary duty guns. Despite the bullshit around “if you can’t do it with 6” back then serious people carried two or three of them. Funny how that equals the 17-18 rounds in a modern service pistol....
Today BUGs are less for firepower and more for contingencies from the primary duty gun going down or arming a second qualified person to a “get off me” tool.
HCM, this is freaking gold. Absolutely right. Paragraphs 3 & 7 are spot on. Paragraphs 5 & 6 should be cannonized. |
| | | Posts: 1089 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: September 25, 2008 |
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| I'm amazed at the number of detectives that carry a G43 as a primary. I think that's a HUGE mistake no matter who you are. One of them sold me his 239 for 300 bucks. Didn't see the point in having a 239 when he can carry a G43 which is lighter,smaller and carries ALMOST the same number of rounds. I made out on that deal but I pray he never needs that G43. |
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| We qualify twice a year, double the state requirement. Recently we went to a practical session for the 2nd qualification. It was always shooting a stationary target from a specified distance in an allotted time. Now we do that once a year and do a move and shoot, scenario driven shoot, etc for the second qualification.
I ride a motor and stow a secondary with additional mags in my bag. We will be issued new Sig SBRs in the next year or so. I do not carry a secondary on my person.
I don't have an assigned area so I can go to the range pretty much any day I want while working.
As far as the statement that most cops can't clear a found weapon, there are a lot of weapons out there of lesser quality that I might not be immediately familiar with in the field. That doesnt mean I'm firearms ignorant. |
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and this little pig said:
| quote: Curious to the reason behind not being able to carry a backup?
The company would be liable for any incident involving a "non-issued" firearm. To reduce the liability, the company would have to show that we were trained with the BUG and that we also qualified with it! Most companies do not want to go the extra mile to do so. Also, what I consider a good BUG for me wouldn't necessarily be the same BUG for the next guy/gal. So, the "trainers" would need to be familiar with many BUGs. My company is non-LEO, although we have a duty belt with all LEO equipment and have uniforms, badges, etc. If it looks like a cop and smells like a cop, (make your own conclusions). We're just a bunch of guys that are sitting targets in the event the SHITF. We qualify twice a year and cannot use the issued firearm to practice with. Some of us are fortunate enough to own and shoot many firearms, so our skills need to be honed at our expense! They are worried of an accident with the company-issued firearm while not on an official training exercise. That being said, I still love my job and take appropriate steps to keep safe. After all, what they can't catch you doing doesn't hurt you!!!! |
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| I started my career in law enforcement in the mid-1970’s and retired in 2008. During all that time, if I carried a primary duty pistol, I carried a “Back-up Gun.” The agencies that I worked for nearly always allowed their officers to carry “personally owned-department approved” primary duty weapons as well as back-ups. We qualified with both regularly, but it wasn’t until the late 1990’s that we were restricted regarding our off-duty choices. Basically this meant they had to comply with firearms approved for on-duty use. Prior to that, basically anything off-duty was okay. Since retiring, my choices aren’t restricted much and I’ve only got to qualify with a firearm that is of the “type” (semi-auto and/or revolver) that I wish to carry. Right now, so long as my semi-auto is a .380, 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP, I’m “Good to Go”!
"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
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| | | Posts: 10193 | Location: The Free State of Arizona | Registered: June 13, 2007 |
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and this little pig said:
| Yay for LEOSA!!!! You guys deserve it! |
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