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Range Trip - Sig 320 and Ruger GP100 - 320 Update at Top Login/Join 
Jack of All Trades,
Master of Nothing
Picture of 2000Z-71
posted
Update:

Extended range trip yesterday. Went out with one of my coworkers who is a former member of the USAMU and currently working on his Grand Master rating for USPSA. What I thought would be just a couple of guys throwing lead downrange turned into an extensive teaching and practice session.

Started off just the same with the P320, consistently low left, great groups but consistently low left. That's when the coaching started, complete rebuild or my stance and grip. I'm old school and have shot a modified Weaver since learning how to shoot and compete with S&W revolvers when I was a teenager in the 80's with the Sheriff's Department Explorer Program.

First was the stance, getting out of the 45 degree stance towards the target and standing square to it in an isosceles position. Then it was the grip, moving it much higher on the gun, moving the non shooting hand A LOT higher. The big aha moment was tension. Once we started talking about it and I made the comment of pulling back with the left hand and pushing forward with my right, the response was, "Get rid of that Weaver bullshit!, relax the shoulders, eliminate the tension."

Once that was identified and I was made aware of it, my groups moved back into the center. Started focusing on isolating the trigger finger after that. My point of impact with the 320 is on center now, the groups aren't nearly as small as I would like them, but that may come with practice.

I'm sure my struggles with the 320 are a combination of a lot of things; being out of practice for a long time, never adapting my technique and practice to newer methods, archery shooting habits creeping into my firearms shooting, and shooting a new and unfamiliar pistol. The biggest improvement seemed to come from trying to eliminate pulling back in tension with my left arm.

Of course at the end of the day I had to pull out my Dan Wesson 1911 in 9mm and try it, shot the center out of the target with it. While it's tempting to take the easy way and fall back into old habits with old guns, I'm going to commit to the training, trying to eliminate the old habits and work more with the 320. In the end I think I'll end up being the batter shooter for it.



Finally got a range trip in with my two new handguns a Sig 320 Compact in 9mm and a Ruger 3" GP100 in 10mm. One of them I love and the other I want to put on the consignment shelf at the local shop.

First up was the Sig 320. The trigger is great, very soft shooting gun. The ergonomics are great. Point of aim is low and left, way low and left. Tried several things of adjusting my grip, adjusting the placement of my finger on the trigger and nothing helped. The only thing that would center my group was aiming at the top right corner of the target. Ammo was Federal American Eagle 124gr. I'm planning another trip to the range with different ammo and take my M&P Pro in .40 and Shield .45. My other striker fired guns and see if it's me or the gun. Definitely disappointed with the point of impact being so far off.

Next up was the GP100. I love this gun! Firing full power 10mm out of a 3" revolver at an indoor range is definitely an attention getter. Ammo used was Magtech 180gr. FMJ and Grizzly 200gr. JHP. Point of impact was centered left/right with the Grizzly having a slightly higher point of impact. The fiber optic front sight and plain back Novak rear is effective and easy to pick up. Trigger pull is merely ok in single action, heavy double action but one of the easiest double action triggers to stage that I have ever shot. My only complaint is the factory Ruger moon clips. Their thin and flimsy, I managed to bend one of the three by loading and unloading it. It's enough to make the cylinder drag making a double action shot next to impossible. It can be muscled into place by forcibly cocking the hammer in single action. I'll be ordering some heavier clips from TK Custom.

I'll keep working with the Sig 320 hoping to get it dialed in. But I haven't been as excited about a new gun as I have with this Ruger in a long time.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 2000Z-71,




My daughter can deflate your daughter's soccer ball.
 
Posts: 10743 | Location: Anchorage, AK | Registered: September 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Have another competent shooter try the P320 and bench it. Low left (assuming you’re right handed) is 99.98% of the time the shooter anticipating/flinching. How far off at what distance are we talking? If you’re taking more than two inches or so at 7 yards it’s almost certainly not the pistol.

Kinda weird you’d flinch for a soft shooting semi auto 9, and not with a revolver in 10.


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Charter member of the vast, right-wing conspiracy
 
Posts: 1620 | Registered: June 25, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
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Nice, I just bought a M17 and a 10mm 3” GP100 as well. I haven’t fired either unfortunately.

I went ahead and ordered moon clips from TK custom based on other reviews of the factory clips. I also ordered the clips he designed to shoot .40 cal. I don’t really expect to shoot .40 often but it will be nice to be able to.




Georgia Carry MemberNRA Lifetime Member

“With no police to protect you, did you own a gun? Did your neighbor?” - The Division 2

“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
 
Posts: 13240 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
Picture of henryaz
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quote:
Originally posted by 2000Z-71:
ext up was the GP100. I love this gun! Firing full power 10mm out of a 3" revolver at an indoor range is definitely an attention getter. Ammo used was Magtech 180gr. FMJ and Grizzly 200gr. JHP.

I have the same gun. I've tried the 180gr in both my handloads and Underwood XTP. Trying different weight bullets, I found the magic number to be the 155gr for this gun. Underwood XTP in this weight actually delivers more muzzle energy than the 180gr. The lighter bullet made for easier follow-up shots with less recoil.
 
I also love this gun! TK custom moonclips are the way to go, too. When you order the pkg of 10, he also includes two of his specially designed clips to shoot .40. The .40 clips are .050" thick, vs .032" for the Ruger and TK 10mm stock clips.



all your sig are belong to us
 
Posts: 8831 | Location: South Congress AZ | Registered: May 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
and this little pig said:
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I've got a GP-100 in .357Mag. I've had it for 10 years and shoot it quite a bit. Once you master the "staging" of the double action trigger, it is awesome. My single action trigger pull is 3-1/2# to 4# measured with a trigger gauge.
 
Posts: 2828 | Registered: February 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
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quote:
Originally posted by odin:
I've got a GP-100 in .357Mag. I've had it for 10 years and shoot it quite a bit. Once you master the "staging" of the double action trigger, it is awesome. My single action trigger pull is 3-1/2# to 4# measured with a trigger gauge.

I carried one for several years on duty and found that dry firing extensively smoothed the DA trigger to where it is now as smooth as any pistol I’ve handled. All the bearing surfaces are as slick as glass.




I'm very discreet. I have no code of ethics. I will kill anyone, anywhere. Children, animals, old people, doesn't matter. I just love killing.
Krombopulos Michael
 
Posts: 10606 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Without assuming too much, if the same grip is being used on the revolver as the P320, it might help explain the point of aim issue with the P320.

What's described doesn't sound like a pistol issue, at all. As another poster noted, have someone else shoot it. None of us liked to admit that we're the point of aim problem, but try a few things first; you may find that it's simply a matter of learning to shoot that pistol.

Bench it; shoot it off a sandbag or a rest, focus on nothing but trigger and sight, instead of free-hand shooting. Have someone else do the same, compare the grouping.
 
Posts: 3748 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Pizza Bob
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quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
I went ahead and ordered moon clips from TK custom based on other reviews of the factory clips. I also ordered the clips he designed to shoot .40 cal. I don’t really expect to shoot .40 often but it will be nice to be able to.


I bought a GP100 Match Champion in 10 mm and expect to shoot nothing but .40 S&W through it. This will become my main gun for use in IDPA.

I had a 10# Wolff main spring and an 8# Wolff trigger return spring installed. During sight in and at a subsequent IDPA match, I experienced about a 4% - 5% FTF (due to light strikes) rate. That was using Ranch Products 646 moon clips and Federal SynTech 205 gr factory ammo.

Low as the failure rate is, it is as unacceptable for competition as it is for defense (just less consequential). As a probable remedy, I have installed a 12# main spring and detect very little if any difference in pull weight and it actually feels smoother - but that's probably just me.

This weekend's match will probably get rained-out, but the following week is an indoor match, so we'll get to see if the heavier mainspring does the trick. I really want to avoid the $7/ea moon clips if at all possible. Have lots of the RP 646 moons.

Adios,

Pizza Bob


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Posts: 1246 | Location: Central NJ | Registered: January 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
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Sig's "combat sight setup" can be astonishingly bad. By all means let someone else bench it and see what happens - but don't dismiss the idea of contacting Sig, telling them that their sights suck, and asking them to do something about it. I know from experience that they can get 320 sights right out of the box.
 
Posts: 23280 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Pizza Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
I went ahead and ordered moon clips from TK custom based on other reviews of the factory clips. I also ordered the clips he designed to shoot .40 cal. I don’t really expect to shoot .40 often but it will be nice to be able to.


I bought a GP100 Match Champion in 10 mm and expect to shoot nothing but .40 S&W through it. This will become my main gun for use in IDPA.

I had a 10# Wolff main spring and an 8# Wolff trigger return spring installed. During sight in and at a subsequent IDPA match, I experienced about a 4% - 5% FTF (due to light strikes) rate. That was using Ranch Products 646 moon clips and Federal SynTech 205 gr factory ammo.

Low as the failure rate is, it is as unacceptable for competition as it is for defense (just less consequential). As a probable remedy, I have installed a 12# main spring and detect very little if any difference in pull weight and it actually feels smoother - but that's probably just me.

This weekend's match will probably get rained-out, but the following week is an indoor match, so we'll get to see if the heavier mainspring does the trick. I really want to avoid the $7/ea moon clips if at all possible. Have lots of the RP 646 moons.

Adios,

Pizza Bob


I’ll let you know how the TK custom ones work. I plan on taking it out later next week.




Georgia Carry MemberNRA Lifetime Member

“With no police to protect you, did you own a gun? Did your neighbor?” - The Division 2

“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
 
Posts: 13240 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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The P320 is a ridiculously easy pistol to shoot very accurately (at least my two examples were).

Other than the rounds impacting low (Sig COMBAT SIGHT PICTURE nonsense), you simply align the sights and pull the trigger with really no thought.

I had no Glock 'lefties' with the striker P320, just tight groups, centered and a bit low.

Then again I had one that would fire if you dropped it on it's ass, which I didn't know and thankfully never did; so maybe the triggers aren't as light anymore? IDK.
 
Posts: 42769 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by BuddyChryst:
Have another competent shooter try the P320 and bench it. Low left (assuming you’re right handed) is 99.98% of the time the shooter anticipating/flinching. How far off at what distance are we talking? If you’re taking more than two inches or so at 7 yards it’s almost certainly not the pistol.

Kinda weird you’d flinch for a soft shooting semi auto 9, and not with a revolver in 10.


It could be the ergonomics. The compact does have a shorter grip. If you have a set, try putting the carry grip on it and see if it makes a difference. The carry grip has a full-length grip, but uses the same slide as the compact.

Also ergonomic-related - the position of the trigger. If your natural finger length goes slightly far onto the trigger, that can cause this as well. I found changing where my finger placement by even less than 1/4" could make a big difference. I try to center my finger pad and avoid pushing through to the first joint of the finder.

I know you're well-versed in shooting - it just might be an oversight in this case.
 
Posts: 2246 | Location: Northern California | Registered: December 01, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Jack of All Trades,
Master of Nothing
Picture of 2000Z-71
posted Hide Post
Update at top.




My daughter can deflate your daughter's soccer ball.
 
Posts: 10743 | Location: Anchorage, AK | Registered: September 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
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Just an update from my end, ran a couple boxes of .40 through the gun using the TK custom moon clips and had 100% reliability. Everything else about the gun is stock.




Georgia Carry MemberNRA Lifetime Member

“With no police to protect you, did you own a gun? Did your neighbor?” - The Division 2

“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
 
Posts: 13240 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Pizza Bob
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Update - Ruger GP100 in 10 mm

As I said in my previous post, I installed a 12# mainspring in place of the 10# which had given some light strikes.

I shot a small IDPA match yesterday and the gun ran 100% with that set-up (12# main / 8# trigger return). I was using factory Federal SynTech .40 S&W ammo with the 205 gr bullet. These were used in Ranch Products moon clips meant for the S&W Model 646. These clips are at least one seventh the cost of TK's (not disparaging TK's - his are EDM cut and the Ranch clips are die-stamped). I'm just a penurious Scotsman.

Adios,

Pizza Bob


NRA Benefactor Member
 
Posts: 1246 | Location: Central NJ | Registered: January 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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