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Deputy is suing SIG for $10 million from P320 injury Login/Join 
Member
Picture of Poacher
posted Hide Post
When I go into a bank or somewhere else I'm not supposed to carry, I simply unholster the weapon and put it in the center console and leave the holster on. I carry IWB or belt loop, not a fan of paddles FWIW.

Either way, they certainly don't say what they think caused the weapon to fire.




NRA Life Member

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." Teddy Roosevelt
 
Posts: 2052 | Location: Newnan, GA | Registered: January 24, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Poacher:
When I go into a bank or somewhere else I'm not supposed to carry, I simply unholster the weapon and put it in the center console and leave the holster on. I carry IWB or belt loop, not a fan of paddles FWIW.

Either way, they certainly don't say what they think caused the weapon to fire.

Why do you go inside the bank without CC'ing?
 
Posts: 15708 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of RoverSig
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The CNN article: http://www.cnn.com/interactive...auer-p320-drop-fire/

CNN is not the most respected source of news about firearms, but this article assembles the reported incidents of AD's by police officers in a factual manner.

The one incident mentioned by the OP, that of the deputy in Loudon County, VA, is apparently different from all the others -- no impact to the gun was claimed. If there had been a reported impact, from dropping the gun or having the gun hit by something like a car door, her case would be greatly reinforced by the other cases involving police officers. The videos of the P320 going off when dropped and the "voluntary recall" by Sig-Sauer would help her case, too. But since there is no claim of impact (as far as we know from the reporting) her lawyers are going to have to show (replicate) how this unique event might have happened.

Does $10 million sound high? That's roughly 200 years of income for a Sheriff in Loudon County.

Since there are only a few Police-related drop fire incidents involving the unmodified P320s, and only a couple of them involve injuries, Sig-Sauer might just settle out of court to put this bad publicity to bed. We'll see if any future cases arise from civilian users of the unmodified P320 suffering similar incidents -- I haven't seen any like that yet.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RoverSig,
 
Posts: 1308 | Location: Virginia, USA | Registered: June 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I agree with jljones' last photo, except that I unclip the QLS fork from the paddle or belt-loop attachment. If I'm going into somewhere (courthouse) that disallows carry, I'll lock it and my car keys in the lockbox before the magnetometers.
 
Posts: 368 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: December 27, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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We work so far apart and have the same procedures and issues. For booking and or going to court/jails we take our loaded pistols out of the holster and put them in the lock box with our cruiser keys, (full disclosure twenty years ago I ran out of the booking room and went to a hot call with an empty holster). Most officers in my department do not take their duty gun home and will secure it in their locker loaded. The only issues I have seen were the few who load and unload when they put the gun in their locker.


Common practice is that you unholster the loaded pistol and put it in the lock box in the sallyport. You also put your car keys in with it. (this way you can't become distracted and drive off without your gun Big Grin- we're dealing with cops here, ya know)

At the end of your business, you go get the pistol and put it back into the holster.

At night, I put my duty gun up just like this.

[/QUOTE]


DPR
 
Posts: 391 | Registered: March 10, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 4859:
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
quote:
Originally posted by 4859:
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by 4859:
Some thing isn't right with this story. Also, who the hell leaves a loaded gun in a holster while taking off or on a belt or your body?!?!?
All the time. With a quality holster and firearm, it’s a non issue.

Especially if I need to remove the weapon in a vehicle and secure it, then put it back on when returning.

But please enlighten me if you have some known safety practice with data to prove this practice unsound.


When I worked in LE you removed your side arm and made it safe before removing duty gear. Department policy. Very safe and sound as a unloaded gun can't have a ND or AD. Long guns kept in vehicles never had a round in the chamber. Again, department policy. Not ever one does the same thing.


You still didn't answer what is wrong with removing holster with gun in it? This is how I do it. Unsnap holster remove with gun safely in holster and set it beside my desk. When I want to carry it again I put it back on with gun in holster.

What is wrong with doing it this way? Question is for anyone that can answer,not just 4859.


Pretty sure I did. Sorry you can't understand.


I'm sorry, I must be slow. Can you explain it to me like a third grader? I really don't see any danger to in unsnapping holster and setting gun and holster on my desk. I'm not being a smart ass, I really want to know.



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 11691 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Poacher
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by Poacher:
When I go into a bank or somewhere else I'm not supposed to carry, I simply unholster the weapon and put it in the center console and leave the holster on. I carry IWB or belt loop, not a fan of paddles FWIW.

Either way, they certainly don't say what they think caused the weapon to fire.

Why do you go inside the bank without CC'ing?


In TX banks I go to they are posted and have LE in them. No sense in running into one actually paying attention.




NRA Life Member

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." Teddy Roosevelt
 
Posts: 2052 | Location: Newnan, GA | Registered: January 24, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 4859:
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by 4859:
Some thing isn't right with this story. Also, who the hell leaves a loaded gun in a holster while taking off or on a belt or your body?!?!?
All the time. With a quality holster and firearm, it’s a non issue.

Especially if I need to remove the weapon in a vehicle and secure it, then put it back on when returning.

But please enlighten me if you have some known safety practice with data to prove this practice unsound.


When I worked in LE you removed your side arm and made it safe before removing duty gear. Department policy. Very safe and sound as a unloaded gun can't have a ND or AD. Long guns kept in vehicles never had a round in the chamber. Again, department policy. Not ever one does the same thing.


Safer to leave the firearm in the holster, than re-holstering a loaded firearm all the time.




 
Posts: 7535 | Registered: October 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by cas:
Wait... I see the problem with this story.

quote:
a CNN investigation.



No wonder it doesn't make any sense.


That's what I was thinking.
 
Posts: 755 | Location: South Dakota | Registered: May 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
posted Hide Post
quote:
Safer to leave the firearm in the holster, than re-holstering a loaded firearm all the time.



That has always been my thinking, but 4859 thinks that's crazy, but won't say why. Since he won't explain his position, does anyone else think it's unsafe to remove holster and gun and set on ottoman or desk?



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 11691 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
quote:
Safer to leave the firearm in the holster, than re-holstering a loaded firearm all the time.



That has always been my thinking, but 4859 thinks that's crazy, but won't say why. Since he won't explain his position, does anyone else think it's unsafe to remove holster and gun and set on ottoman or desk?
It’s fine unless it’s a non-upgraded P320 and it falls off. Wink
 
Posts: 38661 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of BullBarrel
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sparkyk:
quote:
Originally posted by cas:
Wait... I see the problem with this story.

quote:
a CNN investigation.



No wonder it doesn't make any sense.


That's what I was thinking.


Most of us do not care for CNN (myself included), but as was mentioned over and over, it is a fact that was confirmed by others, that SIG knowingly sold unmodified 320s to civilians (AND KNOWING ABOUT THE POTENTIAL ISSUE) while they performed the safety modification for US Army contract guns.

Never-mind that some people are stupid with firearms and drop them sometimes loaded, but the facts are what they are....
 
Posts: 66 | Registered: April 08, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of jack32586
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In hundreds of hours of gun handling over the last many years I've seen exactly two ADs and a few NDs. I've seen guns dropped in every imaginable scenario. Both ADs were AR type and both were slamfires. One a sling broke and a 9mm fell on its suppressor, blowing up the end of the suppressor and chipping the concrete floor. No question. The second was recently, an AR carried muzzle down hit the floor of our armored vehicle after a hard bump and discharged. I was in the front passenger seat, so I didn't see it. Operator says the safety was on and he didn't touch the trigger. Maybe I believe it. Maybe. ARs are known to be susceptible to that. I've seen lots of handguns dropped, thrown, kicked etc by cops and bad guys. Never seen one go off. Sure it can happen. I've heard lots of stories from guys about guns going off being dropped during a foot pursuit, and other wild tales. From my point of view- its 99.99% ND. The deputies gun went off, IN THE HOLSTER? Bullshit. Take that gun, put a primed shell in it, put it in its holster, hang it up and start smacking it with a stick.
Sig is dumb for saying their gun can't fire unless the trigger is pulled- its a tool and can malfunction like any tool. The Army can break anything- and did. Where they throwing them down stairwells like DEA did with Rock River, or dropping them from shoulder level? I'd like to spend an hour with the specific gun in question. I hope somebody does. Or fuck it, pay her. CNN already knows Sig is peddling their broke-ass evil guns to the unsuspecting public.
 
Posts: 134 | Location: Northern CA  | Registered: October 10, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Seriously, where have you people in this thread been? This has been well documented to be a REAL issue with the P320, and was debated here endlessly: http://sigforum.com/eve/forums...240065824#8240065824

Long story short, Sig acknowledged their P320s were NOT drop safe (see video here to see independent testing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch7si_VQsGA)

Sig finally recalled all civilian & LE pistols for a fix.


quote:
Originally posted by jack32586:
In hundreds of hours of gun handling over the last many years I've seen exactly two ADs and a few NDs. I've seen guns dropped in every imaginable scenario. Both ADs were AR type and both were slamfires. One a sling broke and a 9mm fell on its suppressor, blowing up the end of the suppressor and chipping the concrete floor. No question. The second was recently, an AR carried muzzle down hit the floor of our armored vehicle after a hard bump and discharged. I was in the front passenger seat, so I didn't see it. Operator says the safety was on and he didn't touch the trigger. Maybe I believe it. Maybe. ARs are known to be susceptible to that. I've seen lots of handguns dropped, thrown, kicked etc by cops and bad guys. Never seen one go off. Sure it can happen. I've heard lots of stories from guys about guns going off being dropped during a foot pursuit, and other wild tales. From my point of view- its 99.99% ND. The deputies gun went off, IN THE HOLSTER? Bullshit. Take that gun, put a primed shell in it, put it in its holster, hang it up and start smacking it with a stick.
Sig is dumb for saying their gun can't fire unless the trigger is pulled- its a tool and can malfunction like any tool. The Army can break anything- and did. Where they throwing them down stairwells like DEA did with Rock River, or dropping them from shoulder level? I'd like to spend an hour with the specific gun in question. I hope somebody does. Or fuck it, pay her. CNN already knows Sig is peddling their broke-ass evil guns to the unsuspecting public.
 
Posts: 312 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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She apparently did not drop it. No impact reported in this incident. How did it discharge.

quote:
Originally posted by lordhamster:
Seriously, where have you people in this thread been? This has been well documented to be a REAL issue with the P320, and was debated here endlessly: http://sigforum.com/eve/forums...240065824#8240065824

Long story short, Sig acknowledged their P320s were NOT drop safe (see video here to see independent testing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch7si_VQsGA)

Sig finally recalled all civilian & LE pistols for a fix.


quote:
Originally posted by jack32586:
In hundreds of hours of gun handling over the last many years I've seen exactly two ADs and a few NDs. I've seen guns dropped in every imaginable scenario. Both ADs were AR type and both were slamfires. One a sling broke and a 9mm fell on its suppressor, blowing up the end of the suppressor and chipping the concrete floor. No question. The second was recently, an AR carried muzzle down hit the floor of our armored vehicle after a hard bump and discharged. I was in the front passenger seat, so I didn't see it. Operator says the safety was on and he didn't touch the trigger. Maybe I believe it. Maybe. ARs are known to be susceptible to that. I've seen lots of handguns dropped, thrown, kicked etc by cops and bad guys. Never seen one go off. Sure it can happen. I've heard lots of stories from guys about guns going off being dropped during a foot pursuit, and other wild tales. From my point of view- its 99.99% ND. The deputies gun went off, IN THE HOLSTER? Bullshit. Take that gun, put a primed shell in it, put it in its holster, hang it up and start smacking it with a stick.
Sig is dumb for saying their gun can't fire unless the trigger is pulled- its a tool and can malfunction like any tool. The Army can break anything- and did. Where they throwing them down stairwells like DEA did with Rock River, or dropping them from shoulder level? I'd like to spend an hour with the specific gun in question. I hope somebody does. Or fuck it, pay her. CNN already knows Sig is peddling their broke-ass evil guns to the unsuspecting public.


DPR
 
Posts: 391 | Registered: March 10, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 10round:
She apparently did not drop it. No impact reported in this incident. How did it discharge.

quote:
Originally posted by lordhamster:
Seriously, where have you people in this thread been? This has been well documented to be a REAL issue with the P320, and was debated here endlessly: http://sigforum.com/eve/forums...240065824#8240065824

Long story short, Sig acknowledged their P320s were NOT drop safe (see video here to see independent testing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch7si_VQsGA)

Sig finally recalled all civilian & LE pistols for a fix.


quote:
Originally posted by jack32586:
In hundreds of hours of gun handling over the last many years I've seen exactly two ADs and a few NDs. I've seen guns dropped in every imaginable scenario. Both ADs were AR type and both were slamfires. One a sling broke and a 9mm fell on its suppressor, blowing up the end of the suppressor and chipping the concrete floor. No question. The second was recently, an AR carried muzzle down hit the floor of our armored vehicle after a hard bump and discharged. I was in the front passenger seat, so I didn't see it. Operator says the safety was on and he didn't touch the trigger. Maybe I believe it. Maybe. ARs are known to be susceptible to that. I've seen lots of handguns dropped, thrown, kicked etc by cops and bad guys. Never seen one go off. Sure it can happen. I've heard lots of stories from guys about guns going off being dropped during a foot pursuit, and other wild tales. From my point of view- its 99.99% ND. The deputies gun went off, IN THE HOLSTER? Bullshit. Take that gun, put a primed shell in it, put it in its holster, hang it up and start smacking it with a stick.
Sig is dumb for saying their gun can't fire unless the trigger is pulled- its a tool and can malfunction like any tool. The Army can break anything- and did. Where they throwing them down stairwells like DEA did with Rock River, or dropping them from shoulder level? I'd like to spend an hour with the specific gun in question. I hope somebody does. Or fuck it, pay her. CNN already knows Sig is peddling their broke-ass evil guns to the unsuspecting public.


There isn't enough info in the article to know. If I take the fact the gun was holstered at face value (I would assume someone else @ the range witnessed this), when perhaps when she undid the belt it hit something?

Who knows. Either way, given the amount of crap we gave people like the facebook guy and the CT cop, I'm a bit more cautious now about outright dismissing claims of discharge whilst holstered. Before the Omaha outdoors video, any report of P320 discharge was flamed to the nth degree, just like this one is.
 
Posts: 312 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
posted Hide Post
quote:
There isn't enough info in the article to know.

Then that would be the key thing to take away from the article. Pull up a chair - we'll get the full story eventually.
 
Posts: 21688 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Poacher:
When I go into a bank or somewhere else I'm not supposed to carry, I simply unholster the weapon and put it in the center console and leave the holster on. I carry IWB or belt loop, not a fan of paddles FWIW.

Either way, they certainly don't say what they think caused the weapon to fire.[/QUOTE

Boycot such banks and have your state gun's rights group send them a letter. That is what many of us belonging to Virginia Citizens Defense League do.


Democracy is 2 Wolves & a Lamb Debating what to have for Lunch

Liberty is a Well Armed Lamb!!!
 
Posts: 386 | Registered: March 03, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
...it's pretty easy to determine if a gun discharged in the holster or not. You don't have to be a forensic expert to figure that out. Lying about it would be dispelled very quickly.

If no witnesses or video, our procedure would be to take the gun and holster to our Crime Lab and attempt to reproduce the incident in controlled settings recreating the circumstances the officer claimed. We carry Glocks and the only in-the-holster discharges I'm aware of resulted from foreign objects in the holster.
 
Posts: 139 | Location: Indiana | Registered: June 19, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
I leave mine in the holster when I remove the holster. I use the Safariland QLS system on my duty rig so I can just detach the holster with the pistol in it. I can place the holstered pistol with my car keys in the lockbox if I go into the jail.


What, me worry?
 
Posts: 1944 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: September 27, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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