I've seen it opined that the 1911 as a platform, is not adequate for "hot" 10mm loads long term. Obviously, "hot" and "long term" would need to be defined and whether any failure was premature or just the result of wear that any gun would experience with hot ammo.

There are really only a few platforms out there. The P220, now, which seems to be selling like hotcakes, the 1911, which I expect has the greatest "market share" in 10mm still, and then the CZ clones by Tanfoglio/EAA. Then there is the Glock models 20 and 40, which seem to stand up. Now there are other polymer, striker fired guns entering the market in 10mm, like M&P.

I may be wrong, but it seems like the 1911 is, as I said, the one with the greatest 10mm "market share" at this point. It would be curious if it is truly inadequate AS A PLATFORM.

I'm sure there are lower priced 10mm 1911s by those that are sort of late to the table and jumping on both the 1911 band wagon and the 1911 band wagon that might now be up to a long strong diet of 10mm. However, when you consider the higher priced offerings from Springfield Amory, Dan Wesson, Wilson Combat and Nighthawk Custom, I would be surprised if they really can't handle a steady, long term diet of hot 10mm without design, platform type failures.

I know the original Delta had issues, the corrected Delta may not have been durable enough either. There were at the time, recommendations for heavier recoil springs, double recoil springs, shock buffers, full length guide rods and beefed up slide stops. That doesn't seem to be an issue with the current generation of 1911s in 10mm.

For this purpose "hot" would be Norma specs I suppose, or something close. Durability would be a non-design or platform failure, that is, only due to normal, expected wear. Also failures like magazine issues and FTF, FTE and so on which can be corrected with some work would not be included. They would be more reliability and not durability issues.

It seems to me both have been ironed out in the current generation of quality 1911s in 10mm.

What is your opinion?

Question:
Do you consider the 1911 to be an adequate platform from a design standpoint to sustain hot 10mm loads long term without a premature failure?

Choices:
Yes, Defintely!
No, decidedly not!
Mostly, but not the best platform.
Maybe, but only in high priced custom guns.

 

Almost all of the objection to the 1911 platform chambered in 10MM Auto goes back to the 1990s and the public's misunderstanding of the way the rails cracked and the solution to the problem

The cracks that occurred were in the very thin section of the left rail just above the slide stop hole. I am not talking about the pivot point, but the cutout for the stop itself


image courtesy of coltautos.com

The initial solution to the problem was to remove that thin piece of rail altogether. The 1911 slide does not need the left rail to be continuous from front to back in order to operate correctly. This is how many (perhaps most) modern 1911s are built when chambered for the 10MM Auto cartridge.


image courtesy of thefirearmsblog.com

Not all manufacturers of 10MM Auto 1911s have made this change to their frames. However, they do not make that cutout as close to the top of the rail as the Colts and other early 1911 10MM Auto offerings have done. I guess that they are counting on the odds of the new purchaser having access or preference to mainly watered down 10MM Auto ammunition or that enough metal is back in the equation to resist cracking. Additionally we have had over a quarter of a century of metallurgy advancements that may have strengthened the rail


image courtesy of Brownells

In the past 5+ years we have seen a marked resurgence to ammunition manufacturers returning to Full Power 10MM Auto ammunition offerings

So if you are planning on purchasing (or building) a 1911 chambered for the 10MM Auto cartridge, you want to look at how that frame manufacturer handled the slide stop cutout

A properly set up 1911 is fully capable of handling full power 10MM Auto ammunition for the life of the firearm

Read this multi page thread please.
We are talking about stock, factory produced, five inch Govt. model 1911's in 10mm.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpB...ic.php?f=43&t=265073

quote:

Originally posted by cee_Kamp:
Read this multi page thread please.
We are talking about stock, factory produced, five inch Govt. model 1911's in 10mm.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpB...ic.php?f=43&t=265073

I read five of the eight pages and stopped when it got into Ruger's QC and customer service. The OP was originally posting about a 10mm SR1911, but others started into .45ACP and others claimed that had no problem with their 10mm SR1911 though they were shooting hot loads.

So, I'm not sure how this relates to the 1911 platform being inadequate for 10mm. Granted colt_saa may have been talking about custom builds, but I would also include production guns like Colt and Dan Wesson which, I would say, are higher quality than the Ruger or Remington, for example. Still, they are production guns, as you put it, they are, "stock, factory produced, five inch Govt. model 1911's in 10mm".

Only one of my 10mm 1911s is a long slide, and only one of them is "customized", but no custom. Those three include two 5" and one commander size.

So, the question, the SR1911 and this one failure notwithstanding, is the 1911 as a platform inadequate for 10mm. Or, is it just the lower end, perhaps the recently to market, 10mm 1911s rather than makers like Colt and Dan Wesson, along with others, who have been in the 10mm market for a long time and make no bones about hot loads like the Ruger CS seemed to be doing in the thread.

What point were you making? Not a challenge, just a question. What I took away from the thread is that Ruger has an issue with the barrels they are supplying with their SR1911. That's about it.

It could be one possible point of failure in the 10mm 1911, but it would take other failures with other guns and manufacturers in a similar or identical way to draw a general conclusion that the platform is flawed.

The 1911 does just fine with hot 10mm loads. The only major issue was addressed by Colt_saa.

That ruger thread has nothing to do with whether the 1911 is fine with 10mm. Things can sometimes fail. O Noes!

Considering the amount of spicy 10mm I've put downrange through Colt Delta Elites, considering those are just 1911s in 10mm with a triangle on them, I think it's OK.

In 1911 10MM pistols I have had Kimber Eclipe, Fusion, Dan Wesson, Colt (3) and Wilson Combat. Al guns ran perfectly through many rounds without any problems. (Well, the Fusion had to go back a couple of times.) They hold up great but I often don't shoot them more than a few thousand rounds.

Then, I got a SIG 220 in 10MM and now all those 1911's are gone.

Haven't had any problems with mine, and it is not due to a lack of effort.

So the gist of this thread on the Ruger Forum (TL, DR) is that some guns broke their lower barrel lugs? This can happen with .45 ones too if the barrel is not fitted properly.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
So the gist of this thread on the Ruger Forum (TL, DR) is that some guns broke their lower barrel lugs? This can happen with .45 ones too if the barrel is not fitted properly.

I personally have never given Ruger centerfire handguns much thought, but if they are still using cast barrels in their semi-autos I would attribute the couple of broken lugs shown in that linked to thread to simply be a flawed casting and not relevant to the OP's question

As long as it's built with the mild re-engineering for 10mm it's great. if not, and the original JMB design then no.

The Bren Ten. Why settle for less?

But seriously, … here's photo of the original, to compare to the subsequent 1911 evolutions:



And more interesting stuff here:

http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-...on-and-range-report/

I have a S&W 1006 & a 1076. I also had a Kimber Custom (1911) in 10mm. While some Kimbers had QC problems at that time, mine did not. But,compared to the 1006, the 1911 is a lightweight.
I shoot full house 10 mm, I see little reason for light loads---for that there is the 40 S&W. So my aim is 200gr @ 1200fps.

I never had any problem with the Kimber, but I started worrying about the pounding it was taking. Heavy springs reduce the recoil shock but increase the slide speed closing. So it (1911) is going to open very fast or close very fast (and launch brass into the neighbor's back 40).
Worry is not good for the mind so I sold the Kimber, even though it was probably more than adequate.

Everyone's irrational worries are their own, of course, so your worries may differ.

I have a Glock 20 and it has about 500 rounds thru it with no problems handling the underwood ammo 180 grain 1200fps haven't had any stove pipes or failures of any kind. Its built for the hot loads.

I found this interesting. According to Buffalo Bore concerning their ammo. These loads bring out the full potential of the 10MM but operate at standard pressures and as such, are safe to use in any standard 10MM pistol. Please don't phone us and ask if these loads are safe in your 10MM - THEY ARE SAFE--provided your 10MM is a normal operating pistol in good condition.

https://www.buffalobore.com/in...product_detail&p=114

quote:

According to Buffalo Bore concerning their ammo. These loads bring out the full potential of the 10MM but operate at standard pressures and as such, are safe to use in any standard 10MM pistol.

What do they mean by "standard pressure?" Not exceeding SAAMI standards? You can't have more velocity without more pressure.

I have two Colt Delta Elites, a Ruger Match Champion GP100, an S&W 1006, and a Springfield Armory TRP Operator in 10mm. I carry Winchester Silvertip 175 grain in the Colts. I carry Buffalo Bore or Underwood 180 grain JHP in the others. No issues with any of them.