Duly noted. I concede that the manual of arms is the same, but I'm pretty sure we would all agree to that. It's that follow up trigger pull that separates those two in my opinion. I was presuming we were addressing all shots fired not just the first one.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Point of order, that's may be how it internally operates, but that isn't manual of arms. Manual of arms is the human interaction with the gun.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_of_arms

So once loaded and ready to fire, as they would be in a holster or pocket, the manual of arms is the same, aim and pull the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobra21:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
As opposed to, say, a Glock 43?

quote:

<snip>

Plus the manual of arms on a revolver is SO much simpler than an auto. Want to fire it???.... just pull the trigger and keep pulling it.

Ya' as opposed to the need for the firing pin to initiate and the recoil spring to be firm enough to drive the slide while the extractor firmly grabs the rim of the cartridge to hit the extractor correctly to eject the round and the the mag spring to be firm enough to ensure that the new round does not nose dive and jam the round.

Yup, as opposed to a Glock 43.

Yes. All I was talking about was the human interaction consideration vs the mechanical considerations.

I think what needs to be looked at is the totality of the functional consideration of each type of firearm (and, really, each particular model of firearm.) In the end it all depends what what characteristics a particular carrier/shooter considers more important.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobra21:
Duly noted. I concede that the manual of arms is the same, but I'm pretty sure we would all agree to that. It's that follow up trigger pull that separates those two in my opinion. I was presuming we were addressing all shots fired not just the first one.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Point of order, that's may be how it internally operates, but that isn't manual of arms. Manual of arms is the human interaction with the gun.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_of_arms

So once loaded and ready to fire, as they would be in a holster or pocket, the manual of arms is the same, aim and pull the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobra21:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
As opposed to, say, a Glock 43?

quote:

<snip>

Plus the manual of arms on a revolver is SO much simpler than an auto. Want to fire it???.... just pull the trigger and keep pulling it.

Ya' as opposed to the need for the firing pin to initiate and the recoil spring to be firm enough to drive the slide while the extractor firmly grabs the rim of the cartridge to hit the extractor correctly to eject the round and the the mag spring to be firm enough to ensure that the new round does not nose dive and jam the round.

Yup, as opposed to a Glock 43.

When I cannot carry a belt pistol a 442 or M60 with a bobbed hammer goes in the front pants pocket along with a speed strip. I can keep five rounds in the black of a B8 bullseye target double action shooting most of the time at seven yards. Compared to a service revolver or semiautomatic pistol, it is more difficult to shoot well accurately at speed.
Small autos in pockets do not work as well for me as a 2” J frame.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobra21:
Duly noted. I concede that the manual of arms is the same, but I'm pretty sure we would all agree to that. It's that follow up trigger pull that separates those two in my opinion. I was presuming we were addressing all shots fired not just the first one.

Manual of arms is not the same between an autoloader and a revolver. To attempt to simplify the matter to "just point and shoot" is to mids most of what is important and to skip entirely the issues of handling, reloading, staging, malfunctions. And other critical components of the manual of arms.

Yes, the difference is in administrative handling.

Is your semi-auto loaded? You can 1) trust that you loaded it; 2) trust that the loaded chamber indicator (if so equipped) is telling you it's loaded; or 3) do a press check.

Is your revolver loaded? Look at it.

Make your semi-auto safe? You have to 1) remove the magazine; 2) rack the slide to eject the chambered round; 3) lock the slide back; and 4) check the chamber to make sure it's empty.

Make your revolver safe? Open cylinder.

Safe handling of a semi-auto isn't exactly rocket science, but a revolver has fewer steps, which is better for some people.

I occasionally CCW the S&W 640 in a shoulder holster when I need a low profile carry. I also have the 642 which will do summer IWB duty. I had the SP101 and although a great pistol, it's a bit heavy for what it offers. I would consider the SP101 with a 3" barrel for an OWB woods pistol.

Then Kimber steps in and releases not a 5 shot, but a 6 shot of basically the same size, only it's a cast, not forged frame.

Them Kimbers make me want to carry one. And I normally hate Kimber.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
Them Kimbers make me want to carry one. And I normally hate Kimber.

I always said if I see a good used one at a decent price I'd buy it.
Well that happened and I gotta say it has a great trigger, great sights, and locks up like a vault.
I've been carrying it some!
But I still love the j-frame....

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tomgun,

Most of the folks new to the art Ive discussed purchase decisions with chose pistols based upon events happening around them. Concerns with crowds and multiple attackers, they prefer weapons with capacity and ease of reloading. Interesting criteria? Personally, I try to avoid mobs or angry crowds and still carry either a 642 or K6S from time to time. Why? Because they are convenient and effective at close range.

^^ That depends on the purpose of the 5-shot. Plenty of people are buying large-caliber non-snubbies because they're light enough to carry easily in non-urban areas.

Agreed

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
^^ That depends on the purpose of the 5-shot. Plenty of people are buying large-caliber non-snubbies because they're light enough to carry easily in non-urban areas.

my LGS has a Smith Performance Center 327 in stock, it's been there at least a year if not more, at $1300 it's not for the faint of wallet, but 8 rounds of 357 magnum or 38 special if you wish is pretty darn nice in a super light weight revolver with large enough grips.

I have to walk away all the time with a tight grip on my Amex...

I shot a cylinder full of .357 full house out of that gun. Painful. I could not shoot another cylinder.

.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
my LGS has a Smith Performance Center 327 in stock, it's been there at least a year if not more, at $1300 it's not for the faint of wallet, but 8 rounds of 357 magnum or 38 special if you wish is pretty darn nice in a super light weight revolver with large enough grips.

I have to walk away all the time with a tight grip on my Amex...

I'd buy one for the right price. I have never carried one, and use a 938 for pocket carry, figuring that 7+1 is better than 5, and 9mm is better than the average .38 special, and more shootable than .357 mag in a small gun.

That said, I also do a fair bit of hiking, with the attendant risks of 2 legged idiots, and 4 legged pigs, feral cattle and black bear. My choices are a Redhawk 7.5 inch in a shoulder holster, a Smith 629 or Ruger GP 100 4 inch in a belt holster, or the 938 in my pocket. Some times, depending on where I am going, and who I am going with, the 938 is the only viable option. Honestly, however, I'd like to be carrying a Model 60 with the 2.125 barrel and some Federal 158 grain magnum Keith bullets. That would give me the power, penetration and concealability that I can't really get anywhere else.

So, snubbies with 5 shot capacity may be dying out as pocket CCW in favor of the ultra compact auto, but I'd still like to have one or two for my more specialized needs.

quote:

But we all gotta have our super tactical, high capacity Navy SEAL Special Operator guns first!

The SEALs have in fact used revolvers, too.

I have a nice 640 no-dash .38, and an SP101. Neither gets carried much anymore thanks to Glocks excellent G26 and occasionally my 220 when holster carry is called for. That said, I wouldn’t feel naked if i had to carry either wheel gun.

I own a couple J-frame S&Ws, a Model 38 Bodyguard and a Model 640-1. The Model 38 is lighter than the all stainless steel Model 640, but in either case the five round cylinder increases bulk and provides limited capacity compared to my Subcompact P250's 10+1 in .40 S&W. The Sig is flat, compact, easy to carry and conceal, and (like the S&W's) has a good trigger.

I've recently picked up a P365 and its even smaller than the P250 or P320 Subcompacts, with a respectable 10+1 9mm capacity with the standard sized magazine. Its very hard for me to justify carrying the revolvers as an alternative to modern, subcompact pistol.

I think the basic subject of this thread was really small revolvers, basically J-Frames. Other than the barrel length, there's nothing remotely small about the gun you posted. It's not something that can carry anywhere a J-frame could be carried. I think for purposes of this discussion, any gun alternatives need to be at least somewhat carry equivalent to a J-frame.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
my LGS has a Smith Performance Center 327 in stock, it's been there at least a year if not more, at $1300 it's not for the faint of wallet, but 8 rounds of 357 magnum or 38 special if you wish is pretty darn nice in a super light weight revolver with large enough grips.

I have to walk away all the time with a tight grip on my Amex...

Still carry a 940 when hunting with rat shot for snakes. Usually in addition to a Sig or 1911.

I am an old timer who grew up on revolvers, but I was also an early adopter of semi-autos. I have used both since my teens.

The younger folks who grew up in the semi-auto dominant era, generally experiment with revolvers more out of curiosity than anything, or so it seems from reading this and other forums. Frequently you will see a topic about trying a revolver for the first time, buying first revolver, etc. The point is, they don't have a pre-disposition to use a revolver. They have to make an effort to use one and get to know its benefits. Its almost like using a rotary phone-well that's extreme but not far off.

With modern semi-autos, the difference in reliability is virtually negligible. Other than pocket carry, the semi is easier to conceal. I realize that it is also more concealable in a pocket, but some of us are more comfortable with a DA revolver in a pocket than a striker fired or cocked and locked semi. If you have to use a pocket holster, is it really a pocket gun?

A semi is dependent on its magazine; a revolver only needs ammo. However, the most efficient way to carry extra ammo is in loaded magazines. On a little extended stroll through the woods or creek bank, I have often stuck a J-frame in my pocket, and an MTM ammo wallet in the hip pocket of my jeans-3-4 shot loads and the rest bullets. For self defense however, you have to reload a J-frame twice to get the round count of a G26.

I am 61, and if by the grace of God I am active for another 20 years, I will consider the 5 shot revolver as a viable commodity. I would think arbitrarily that someone who was around 25-30 in 1990 or so would have similar views, so I would give the 5 shot revolver 25-30 years as a main stream interest. Shooters older than that are generally more inclined toward semi-autos because that is what is seen more on ranges and in popular culture. The only thing that might change that trend would be legislation prohibiting semi autos or limiting magazine production.

The big bore hunting, outdoorsman arena will continue to be dominated by revolvers unless there are significant developments in semi-autos. The 10mm is a nice, powerful round, but it isn't a .44 mag, and certainly not a .454. Those who do it everyday ( I am not one of the fortunate) for the most part will not consider anything less than a .44 mag.

But this thread is really about the 5 shot, and while I don't think it is on life support just yet, I think there is a horizon where it is no longer main stream.