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5-shot revolver. If not dead, on life support? Login/Join 
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Picture of Ironmike57
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I loved to shoot pins about 25 years ago. I shot with a 6" Ruger Redhawk in .41 magnum. I wasn't fast, but when I hit a pin, it flew off the table. Everyone else was shooting .38 super or 1911 pistols. After 5 strings the fatigue of the recoil got to me.



Was shooting pins (informally) on Thursday nights for a while. One night there was a guy there using a revolver. He was fast. In one round he had a failure to fire. He reloaded and still shot an acceptable time. It was really something to see.
 
Posts: 947 | Location: Hollywood,Florida | Registered: July 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This has been an interesting thread! Couple things surprised me though; a larger dealer deciding to go with only the G42 and LCPII from now on. From what I have seen around here, the newer iterations of the old LCP are selling pretty well - and a lot of people, myself included, are hesitant about the LCPII for safety reasons. People picking the LCR over a J-frame is also surprising. I only have one LCR (an 8-shot .22), and I like it alot. But, they just seem cheaply-made compared to the Smiths. If Ruger would just bring out a Ti-framed SP101 - then S&W may have to drop the J-frame...
 
Posts: 197 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: September 01, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by GeoJelly:
People picking the LCR over a J-frame is also surprising. I only have one LCR (an 8-shot .22), and I like it alot. But, they just seem cheaply-made compared to the Smiths. If Ruger would just bring out a Ti-framed SP101 - then S&W may have to drop the J-frame...


FWIW, I chose the J-frame over the LCR because of the trigger. I like a firm reset when shooting DA and the LCR's was just too weak.

I'm not sure a Ti-framed SP101 would work out well. It would still be bulky, and one of the biggest advantages of the SP101 is its recoil-taming weight.

I don't see S&W dropping the J-frame, but I can see them narrowing the available models. From what I've read, they've been doing well in selling the 442/642 guns. I think the 640/640Pro will continue. I can see limited edition "retro" models continuing. I think their other J-frame models have less appeal, but that could be my own biases at play.



"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes
 
Posts: 774 | Registered: February 26, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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J-frame revolvers require dedication and training to be proficient at shooting them. Revolvers of any type also require practice to reload under stress as well. There is a lot to be said for having a J-frame as a backup. I own several and enjoy shooting them with lightly loaded 130 grain wadcutters. 38 Sp. +P, however, is not fun to shoot out of an air weight Smith.

For not much more money, you can get a Glock 26 on the secondary market that will carry easily with a decent belt and holster. Heck, online dealers are practically giving away PPS M2 and Shield 9mm pistols away right now. Either of those at around 300 is a good deal.

The number of quality choices and low cost of entry level 9mm compacts has changed the marketplace.
 
Posts: 370 | Registered: July 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by parabellum:
I own and love a Smith&Wesson Model 638 Bodyguard pre-lock and I carried it in my right front pants pocket from the time I bought it in the Spring of 2000 until a few months ago.

Earlier this year I purchased a Glock G42. After making some changes to make it more shootable and after doing thorough research on the current crop of .380 ACP ammunition, the G42 replaced my 638.

I found that over time, I liked shooting my Bodyguard less and less. For me, shooting the little J frame well took time and practice and I guess I got tired of having my palm slapped and dealing with basketball-sized rapid fire groups at 20 feet.
The G42 is a locked breech pistol and I think this is the primary reason that it's so pleasant to shoot.


What .380 load did you settle on for your G42?

I love my revolvers. But everything my 640-1 used to do for me, my Glock 33 now does better. I retired my 642 for pocket carry in favor of a Ruger LCP but I am considering a G42.
 
Posts: 272 | Location: Virginia | Registered: October 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The Hornady XTP
 
Posts: 79741 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
always with a hat or sunscreen
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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
The Hornady XTP


That 90gr bullet is the best performing JHP in 380 and is loaded by Hornady Custom, Fiocci Extrema, Freedom Munitions, and others. All show the same fps specifications.

As an aside the Winchester Q4206 95gr FMJFN (flat nose) is one of the very best performing non JHP loads.



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Posts: 7597 | Location: Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: June 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
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Point to ponder about revolvers vs semis. People like revolvers because they are "simple" and "you're guaranteed to get it to shoot when a semi might not".

I find both of these to be the opposite, though. A revolver's action isn't much or any more simple than your basic auto's, and that first shot isn't going to go off if the cylinder is bound up by clothing, gunk, or a bad guy's hand, or the hammer gets caught coming back, if you have a hammered variety.

On the flip side, in an auto, that first shot is guaranteed, in comparison to the revolver. As long as you can pull the trigger, that first round is going to go bang. If it's a striker fired gun, you don't even have to worry about the hammer getting caught.

The only time that isn't true is when you've pushed the semi against a target, and it's out of battery. It doesn't take much. And that's when the revolver shines. Given that most carry a 5 shot snubbie for up close and personal work, that is probably the biggest benefit to, say, a Kahr PM9 or similar.

But I do take exception to the "more simple action" and "will always go bang" pontifications. I've had a snub nose completely bind up due to fired .357 primers protruding too much, for example. And grab your cylinder with one hand as you pull the trigger. A person can easily prevent it from turning.

That said, I'm going to go shoot my Model 36 today or tomorrow Big Grin


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Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
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Posts: 9333 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by chongosuerte:
Point to ponder about revolvers vs semis. People like revolvers because they are "simple" and "you're guaranteed to get it to shoot when a semi might not".

I find both of these to be the opposite, though. A revolver's action isn't much or any more simple than your basic auto's,


It's not about the action, it's about operation and manual of arms. Need to fire it? Pull the trigger (Of course, that's the case with a lot of semi-autos, too). Got a failure-to-fire? Pull the trigger, instead of tap-rack-bang. Need to know if it's loaded? Look at the side and you can see the case rims, no need to do a press check. Need to make safe? Open the cylinder, instead of making sure to remove the magazine before racking the slide to eject a round and locking it open. Is either particularly difficult? No, but if a shooter isn't going to put in the effort to learn a semi-auto's manual-of-arms, a revolver would be a better choice because it's simpler.

quote:
And grab your cylinder with one hand as you pull the trigger. A person can easily prevent it from turning.


Twist the gun in the opposite direction of cylinder rotation while pulling the trigger and it will fire. Of course, if your only response to someone grabbing your gun is to pull the trigger, you might need to re-examine your approach to weapons retention. FYI, a 2" J-frame is one of the most difficult guns to disarm.

I'm guessing the protruded primers happened during range practice. That's why you test ammo in your gun, regardless of it being revolver or semi-auto. I test carry ammo in my gun. If I had an issue like that, I wouldn't use that ammo for carry purposes. Problem solved.

Also, the easily-cleared malfunctions that happen with semi-autos typically happen during the feed/extract/eject cycle, which doesn't affect firing a revolver.



"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes
 
Posts: 774 | Registered: February 26, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd have to say (for me) they are on Life Support.

I'm 56 and have always been a revolver guy.
I've had either a 36, 60 or 442 on my ankle for the past 35 years, but a Glock always on my hip.

About a year ago I decided to look at alternates to the 442 ankle gun. I decided on the Kahr CM9 as the replacement. Size wise they are about the same, and weight was the same. The auto gives more onboard rounds, quicker reload, better/faster accuracy (for me), better sights, and complete reliability.

As much as I like my J frames for ankle carry I think I found a superior solution.
 
Posts: 2877 | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm 45 and started shooting in my early 30's. I've always liked semi-autos and never really considered revolvers at first.

But as a few years passed I gradually learned to appreciate the simplicity of a J-Frame for self defense, especially the Centennial. Safe, easy to load and unload without worrying about bullet setback, reliability is not affected by ammo with respect to hollow point design, no jams due to limp wristing and all the other reasons stated earlier.

Yes, they are not the easiest to shoot DA, but they are intended for close range - like 10 feet, not 25 yards or even 10 yards.

I have a no-lock 642 .38, a 640 .357, and a 63 .22LR.

Of course I'd really like S&W to reintroduce the 940 9mm.
 
Posts: 1469 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ruger is bringing back an SP101 in 9mm. Regards 18DAI




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Posts: 3147 | Registered: August 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I bought a G43 talo specifically to give the whole single stack carry option a try. I liked it well enough, but not enough to replace my pocket carry. And if I'm going to pocket carry, it is still my 340 M&P carrying the same 135 grain gold dots Para referenced earlier. If I'm going IWB for carry, for the little bit larger circumference it's my G27. The 43 will be going to classifieds this month as it doesn't get carried. Everyone has their personal preference and for me it's still that 340.
 
Posts: 1275 | Location: Raleigh, NC | Registered: March 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This thread is timely. A relative visited recently and we had a good visit.

In the bustle to get packed up she left her Ruger .38 at our place. Man that thing is smooth!

The trigger is far smoother than a 642. The 642 trigger is noticeably 'stackier'.

(and yes - I get tired of the 'revolvers never jam' nonsense also ...)

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Posts: 5988 | Location: Eastern NC | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't know any guys my age or younger that really are interested in getting a revolver (maybe I need new friends).

Hell, come to think of it, the only person I know who owns one is my father-in-law. He only got it because I got him into guns and shooting...he felt more comfortable with it than a semi-auto.

Personally, I'd love to get a sweet long barrel smith and Wesson .357 magnum. I rented one at a range once and it was just a tack driver and fun to shoot.

Some other things are on my list before that though. I'm not in shooting competitions or anything, but For some reason, that revolver is last on my list. Most likely because I won't be using it to carry.

But, I do love revolvers and think they're awesome. I just don't own any yet.

Seems like revolvers are getting bought by new shooters and guys who have all the semi-autos they'll need.


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Totus Tuus

 
Posts: 3921 | Location: Philadelphia, Pa | Registered: September 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by chongosuerte:
On the flip side, in an auto, that first shot is guaranteed, in comparison to the revolver. As long as you can pull the trigger, that first round is going to go bang.


You're sure about that?
 
Posts: 1337 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Cobra21
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Originally posted by RAMIUS:
I don't know any guys my age or younger that really are interested in getting a revolver (maybe I need new friends).

Hell, come to think of it, the only person I know who owns one is my father-in-law...


People, people, people...listen to the young folks. They don't want REVOLVERS. How many of them grew up watching Taken, Bourne Identity, etc. See many revolvers in those movies? Where would they have even been exposed to revolvers? I have two 20 something sons and they both carry. They wouldn't carry the snub nose I carry even if I paid them to do it.

Of course when the OP says dead or on life support that does not mean they are not gonna be produced at all, but it does mean that there is no big demand for them.

As I said earlier in the thread, go to a big box gun store and just watch at the counter...you'll see what folks want.


Risk the consequences of honesty...
 
Posts: 3977 | Location: DFW, TX | Registered: December 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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At age 75, I don't care as long it's not ME who is dead. Razz

I've owned seven or eight S&W J-frames over the decades, both 2" and 3". Still have a 2" and 3" as well as a SP101 .357 Mag 3". All fine guns. Mainly used the 2" as BUGS...ankle holster, upside down Safariland shoulder, offside belt (BUG). I'm not a pocket carry fan

My observations:

1) If you want to use it as a primary for belt/IWB carry, use a 3" heavy barrel. Shoots like a larger gun. Plus full length ejection rod.

2) IMO, beats a semi of any size for close quarters contact distance. No chance of slide hanging up.

3) Very good choice for females, due to Item 2. Street predators generally have no fear of a woman, so they tend to move in close. Favorite tactic is a grab from behind. Sure, it's harder at distance. But so are small semi's. For civilians, most encounters are up close and personal anyway.

4) Stay with steel frame. For most folks, the lighter versions are distinctly uncomfortable to shoot, even with .38 Spl. Forget the magnums.

5) Like most revolvers, can benefit from a little light action work. Same as the DA on DA/SA pistols. It helps.

Handled the Ruger LCR after they first came out. Did not like the DA trigger return characteristics. Tendency to short stroke. NEVER had this on any S&W J-frame.

The 5-shot revolver is a niche gun. As long as the niches are there to be filled, it will be around for a while. There are tons of low volume sellers out there that keep on chuggin. As long as they are profitable, they will keep making them.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Nipper,


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Posts: 3922 | Location: Northeast | Registered: June 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by parabellum:


Earlier this year I purchased a Glock G42. After making some changes to make it more shootable and after doing thorough research on the current crop of .380 ACP ammunition, the G42 replaced my 638.


I assume your research concluded the .380 is as effective as .38? I can't convince myself but would be interested in a summary of your research. Also, what changes did you make?

Also curious as to why the G42 instead of G43 or Kahr PM9. The Kahr especially is roughly the same size as the G42.

I mainly ask because I have a G42 and may end up giving to to a family member to carry. I was leaning towards a micro 9mm or .38 snub.

Thanks.


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Posts: 6124 | Location: Hoover, AL | Registered: November 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by ruger357:
I assume your research concluded the .380 is as effective as .38?
Actually, no, at least not when compared to loads like the Speer GD 135 grain, but the difference is negligible.

Insufficient penetration is the issue with .380 hollowpoints. Few .380 hollowpoints loads seem to meet the 12" minimum in ballistic gel. The .38 Special doesn't have this problem, at least not with loads like the Gold Dot.

The Hornady XTP is my choice in .380 but I wanted it to be the Speer Gold Dot. Glocks and Gold Dots- that's a classic combination for me. My pistol just doesn't seem to shoot the Gold Dot well, but it likes the XTP just fine. Also, the .380 Gold Dot seems to underpenetrate a bit.

An alternate choice is the Black Hills 100 grain fmj, which, surprisingly, is much less susceptible to overpenetration than other fmj loads.

http://www.black-hills.com/wp-...in-barrel-6-3-13.jpg

The projectile tumbles rather than zips right on through. If you you look closely at that pic, you can see that the bullet is sitting base forward.
 
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