|I started with nothing,|
and still have most of it
Oh good, now there will be more for me. Here's 6 of my 9...
"While not every Democrat is a horse thief, every horse thief is a Democrat." HORACE GREELEY
As long as the Clock 43 has a bogus trigger the J-frame will have a place in concealed carry.
U.S. Army 11F4P Vietnam 69-70 NRA Life Member
How many black powder revolvers were manufactured last year? How many are for sale in LGS display cases?
How many modern 5 shot snubbing were made last year? How many are for sale in LGS gun cases? How many manufacturers are even still building 5 shot snubbies.
Now, how many Glocks? Just Glocks alone.
I never said revolvers were going to go away. I said they would become novelties, collectors items, and range toys, just like black powder weapons are now.
There are a lot of people out there who love revolvers in general, and j-frames (and similar by other manufacturers) in particular. They already have one (or two, or six, or...). They don't need to buy many more.
But for new sales, autos dominate. New buyers have been indoctrinated to them, buy them by the numbers (and the numbers for autos tend to be better), or just like them. So for the manufacturers, it make more sense to put their money into autos. It also doesn't help that revolvers tend to be metal framed, and, therefore much more expensive to make. I'd love to see S&Ws manufacturing cost numbers for a 642 vs a Shield.
In the end mass market revolver production may go away because the cost to sales ratio just isn't good enough.
For the past 6-1/2 years or so, as long as I've had a permit to carry, my primary EDC has been a 642-1, even when I had other guns I could carry...a Glock 23 as well as a 2" and a 3" K-frame. I basically consider myself a revolver guy. But I have to admit that snub revolvers are not as popular as compact single-stack 9mms.
I think the biggest reason is that the snub revolver has a lot of positive attributes that get ignored or overlooked.
I'll also admit that I've been looking into getting a good compact 9mm at some point in the near future, though I've been leaning more towards a double-stack than a single-stack. The reason is the availability of training. I can think of 2 instructors who I would consider to be experts in the snub revolver, and a couple of schools that offer snub revolver classes, in the whole country. Meanwhile, you can probably find at least 3 or 4 good instructors in each state whose POI focuses on semi-autos.
Regarding sales...I don't browse at local LGS very often, but the ones I've been to all have 5-shot snubs (S&W, Ruger, Taurus, and Charter Arms have been seen) for sale, new and used, but I can't say if they sell well or not. I also haven't had any issues finding snubs for sale, used and new, online.
FYI, I started learning to shoot handguns with semi-autos in my late teens/early twenties with semi-autos. I've also attended more training courses using semi-autos, mostly using my Beretta 92FS but on occasion I've also used a 1911, than revolvers. I began switching over to primarily revolvers when I realized their positive attributes worked better for me.
But I'm also a pragmatist. While I still consider myself a revolver guy, I can't ignore the popularity of semi-autos and all that goes along with it (availability, training, accessories, etc.).
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes
I carry a G43 a lot, and have quite a few thousand rounds through it. What's "bogus" about the trigger? Works just fine.
The original trigger as it came out of the box wasn't great. I tried the ghost connector for a while, but then when Glock came out with a minus connector for the G43 I put that in, and it has been great ever since.
Again, not relevant. However, as you asked, at one of the local haunts, one of four cases is dedicated to black powder revolvers, two of the cases to revolvers in general. About half of those are snubbies.
I have no idea how many were made last year. I see a lot of them out there, a lot of them in display cases, and I know a lot of shooters who have them. Some companies build a great deal of their business around them.
As for how many are still making five shot revolvers...already addressed. Read.
My favorite local shop, a very busy one in this area, has about 1/5 of their handgun display wares wrapped up in revolvers; quite a few are short barrel five shot.
Manufacturers continue to introduce or re-introduce new models. Just a few years ago Ruger came out with a 4" SP-101. It's on my list. A 3" s&w model 60 is on my list, too.
NAA continues to make a long line of popular .22 revolvers, and continues to introduce new models. I bought their Earl a few years ago.
Freedom Arms makes some of the most interesting five shot revolvers. Also on my to-do list, only in .44.
S&W's model 69, a five shot .44 magnum isn't to be overlooked, neither is Ruger's recent introduction of the GP-100 in .44 special.
No idea. The local shop has more Sigs than anything, I suspect, but a large number of Glocks, HK's, S&W autos, etc. Also a larger percentage of revolvers than any particular brand of auto as a percent of the total on display. I don't work there, but they're a successful shop and I very much doubt they'd put such a large section of their inventory out as a product that doesn't sell.
As for Glocks, I have a lot myself. I'm wearing a G32 right now. Doesn't change the fact that I just bought several revolvers, including .38 special, .357 magnum, and .41 magnum. None of them will be "range toys."
My recent .41 magnum is not a toy, nor a novelty, and I didn't collect it. I don't plan to shoot it with blackpowder, either.
I suspect that you grew up with autos and didn't have much to do with revolvers. Is that right?
Well, not really. Some are just fun to shoot with.
My other Sig is a Steyr...
Any idea what kind of velocity you're getting out of that barrel?
It does look like fun.
I own like 4 J-Frames. Been primary CCW for a long time. But I may fall into the 'old-timer' category who grew up with revolvers.
Sometimes it's nice to keep your spent brass. It seems my primary carry is a no-lock 442.
The philosophy of protectionism is a philosophy of war. - Ludwig von Mises
I've been dabbling in building kydex holsters for a few months. One can use the weapon, or buy a drone, or blue gun. A molded gun that costs $45-$60.
Guess what is one of the popular drones, out of stock much of the time? 2" S&W J frame.
So IF 5 shot J's are dead.....Still a lot of folks having carry rigs built for them.
Revolvers - more specifically J frames - are more popular with older shooters. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.
For pocket carry, my 340PD no-lock is perfect, especially in hot summer wearing shorts. It's hardly noticeable to me, vs. other guns that feel like I'm carrying a lead ingot.
Quote from an earlier post; "Even those who are inexperienced with guns and want "simple" end up walking out with a semi-auto more than 9 times out of 10. If that's not an indicator of being on life support then I don't know what is."
That's because that's all they see on the shelves, and the movies. Informed decision, and all that. But that's another discussion.
I sometimes wonder about these people (new shooters)...if they know anything about FTF or FTE malfunctions, or are even aware of the potential. False sense of security, etc.
It's a good point. A lot of shooters live by the mantra that their personal choice of carry is to be "carried a lot and shot a little." I lost track a long, long time ago of the number I've overheard having put a hundred rounds through their new pride and joy, who then pronounced it tested and ready to go.
When I did a lot of revolver shooting and it was my primary carry, my biggest gripe was the amount of extra work to clean. Compared to most autos, the revolver can be a pain in the butt to clean. The other advantage of the auto, other than capacity, is the ease of carrying reloads in a magazine, as opposed to a speed strip, speed loader, or moon clip. A flat magazine is easier to carry than a bulky speed loader, and less subject to picking up debris in the pocket, or releasing rounds at the wrong time, etc.
A short barrel j-frame size revolver has a broken-up outline in concealment. Fewer straight lines, it disappears in clothing more easily than most autos.
Small snubbies are easy to shoot, easy to operate, reliable, with no safety to get in the way, no fine motor skills to worry about, simple sights, easy to conceal, and light weight.
I do not see many round guns come through my citizen's firearm safety classes because they are not cool. I tell all students that picking your fiream is personal sort of like picking your underwear. I find that in a panic pull, point and pow is something that most folks can get but, if a malfunction occurs look out.I keep a .22 revolver so folks can see the benefits of a round gun in their rotation. I also use the 438 as a example of a perfect packing J frame. While I do not advicate firing from a pocket or a purse unless an emergency. I do find it is much easier to do with a shrouded hammer Smith and Wesson than a Glock 43. I find that after exposure to the J frame some now consider the positives of the J frame as additional consideration for self defence. VI
Actually I learned to shoot from my father and grandfather on revolvers. My first issued duty weapon was a S&W Model 581 Combat Magnum (essentially a 586 with a trench sight). I carried a S&W Bodyguard or a 2 1/2" M19 as a BUG until the late 90's when revolvers were officially removed for secondary carry/BUG by policy. I still carry my M19 or M66 on occasion just because I can and I enjoy the classics.
I collect S&W revolvers. I'm a fan of revolvers. I'm a fan of leather as well. I despise Kydex. I don't really like polymer either. I really miss the days of wood and steel in fine, well crafted, and honest worn leather. Old school
It is relevant: The modern revolver is currently going the way of the black powder, cap and ball weapons of yesteryear. That's the point I am making. Do people still use black powder weapons? Of course. But when was the last time someone used one for self defense or concealed carry? I actually knew a guy in the 90's who carried a cap and ball pistol for protection. He, like his pistol, was a novelty.
I know who is making modern revolvers today. I know Kimber just came out with one. It's nice, It looks good. It will make a fine addition to someone's collection. I am a supporter of the Chiappa Rhino. Own two. Very innovative. Very fun to shoot.
I would be willing to bet Glock made more G17's, just that one model, for the American gun market than all the manufacturers combined produced a total number of revolvers for that same market. I would be willing to bet that S&W produced more Shields, just Shields, in 9mm than they produced all their model revolvers combined.
It's not that I don't like revolvers; I do. A lot. I started carrying a gun as a LEO in the waning days of the revolver supremacy, and have seen the transition from the revolver to the semi auto to the polymer, striker fired pistol. The good, the bad, the stupid, the sound, the silly, the innovative, and the foolish. But most of all I watched the revolver disappear completely from the scene of professional arms in less than twenty years.
I'm watching that exact same progression now in the open market.
ETA: Not sure how I combined your quote and my response above. It's kinda like a gift-if it's computer related I can, and will screw it up and all with no effort!
|Doin' what I can |
with what I got
I have a S&W Bodyguard and may acquire an LCR at some point just to see the differences, but aside from snakeshot duty the snubby doesn't have a place in my carry rotation.
Last time I shot it I realized I need to get some different ammunition. The little wheelgun gave me a hell of a sting and a slap in the palm. Not sure if this is age or what but I never remember it being that unpleasant to shoot. Remarkably more unpleasant than any of my subcompact 9mms.
Death smiles at us all. Be sure you smile back.
|The Unknown |
With the single exception of mine being a 442 instead of a 638, this exactly describes my reasoning.
Although it's not my preferred method, for the hide-in-a-pocket gun, I've moved to .380 as others have.
|Get Off My Lawn|
To shoot well, accurately, is not necessarily true. It always puzzles me on gun forums guys will recommend snub nose .38s to inexperienced women for home protection (4-6" revolvers or Glocks are my answers). I have a Ruger SP101 2.25" snubby and for the life of me, could not group well with it. Same with my wife, but she much prefers her Glock G26 for operations and accuracy. Hell, I can shoot better with my LCP than the SP101. But my son has the snubby now, he can shoot the shit out of it.
I love revolvers, and own a small collection, but then I'm not the average firearms consumer who may just buy one handgun for home protection. I rarely see revolvers at my club nowadays, doesn't mean they're terrible guns, far from it. Just a sign of the times; we live in a world where well-priced plastic striker-fired pistols rule.
"Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away?"- Ellen Ripley, Aliens, 1986
I own 2. If you want to pocket carry, it's the only way to go. They aren't dead. They have a specific purpose.
Frankly, the reason I like a snubby, is that I can shoot it through my clothes. Winter or summer, I'll get one round or more out of the gate if I need to.
"Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash
"I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman
I carry my 642 or 340PD almost daily. I love my j-frames
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