SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  SIG Pistols    Lights on Pistols ???
Page 1 2 3 

Moderators: Chris Orndorff, LDD
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Lights on Pistols ??? Login/Join 
Member
Picture of T.Webb
posted
In the old days, I wasn't a fan of any modifications on handguns. For my carry gun, I'm still not. But for the range guns, and for the purpose of keeping up with technology, I'm evolving.

Recently, I picked up a P320C with Romeo I Pro optic, and I am thinking of mounting a flashlight on it. So, a few questions ...
1)- What Lumen do you recommend? And why?
2)- Battery or rechargeable?
3)- Do holster makers all accommodate you when you order your holster with a light? Or do you need to order for a specific gun/light combo?
4)- Do you leave the light on the gun during range sessions? Does un-burned gunpowder damage the lens?

That's it for now. I'm sure I'll have more questions soon as I research this more.


************************************************
"Tonight, we are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom. Our grief has turned to anger and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done". {George W. Bush, Post 9/11}



 
Posts: 673 | Location: Long Island, N.Y. / Stephentown, N.Y. | Registered: March 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by T.Webb:
4)- Do you leave the light on the gun during range sessions? Does un-burned gunpowder damage the lens?


A common complaint about leaving lights mounted during extensive range sessions is that residues from the muzzle blast collect on the lens and can be somewhat difficult to remove. The obvious solution is to remove the light when shooting, but that can change the handling somewhat, plus some holsters designed to be used with a light do not work well if the light is removed. Some users suggest putting Vaseline on the lens before the session to make removing the residue easier, but that never appealed to me and I just used to cover it with electrical tape. In time, though, I got tired of that and now use a dummy light.

It’s usually necessary to order holsters for the specific gun and light combination, especially hard polymer holsters. There is enough difference among lights that they’re not interchangeable.

Rechargeable battery lights seem to be all the rage these days and perhaps batteries are different from when I became disenchanted with rechargeables, but I still prefer nonrechargeable for a couple or more reasons.

Depending upon your anticipated use, an excessively bright light can be a handicap under some circumstances. For indoor residential use, for example, the light doesn’t have to be all that bright to be usable. On the other hand, using spill light (e.g., shining it at the ceiling) avoids some of the problem, but then you’re not pointing the gun at possible threats.




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 42089 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but here it goes. Instead of mounting a light on your gun, get a good flashlight and learn to shoot with the gun and the flashlight. There's a big data base of police usage and if you do some research, you'll find that a lot of agencies are going away from weapon mounted lights because of unintentional shootings. In a high stress situation, the less complicated the better. Not everything in a self defense situation needs a loaded gun pointed at it. If your light is mounted to your gun, the gun now becomes your illumination device and it becomes very difficult to light things up without pointing a loaded gun at it. That's just one negative aspect, there are many more and I think the negatives outweigh the positives. If you want to mount a tacticool light to play around with on the range, have fun. But for a serious self defense, bed side gun, less is more.
 
Posts: 5 | Registered: July 15, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of T.Webb
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by cmj8591:
I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but here it goes. Instead of mounting a light on your gun, get a good flashlight and learn to shoot with the gun and the flashlight. There's a big data base of police usage and if you do some research, you'll find that a lot of agencies are going away from weapon mounted lights because of unintentional shootings. In a high stress situation, the less complicated the better. Not everything in a self defense situation needs a loaded gun pointed at it. If your light is mounted to your gun, the gun now becomes your illumination device and it becomes very difficult to light things up without pointing a loaded gun at it. That's just one negative aspect, there are many more and I think the negatives outweigh the positives. If you want to mount a tacticool light to play around with on the range, have fun. But for a serious self defense, bed side gun, less is more.


Obviously good advice and I'm not going to "flame" you. I've been carrying a gun AND a handheld (actually 2)flashlight for about 40 years. In my line of work, I draw my flashlight several times a night, but haven't needed to draw the gun yet. It's just that I've been seeing more and more that red dots and WML's are the wave of the future. I'm trying to determine for myself if we're being subjected to progress or marketing!

So ... at the range, I'll continue to play with my P320/Romeo I and possibly a light, while at work I'll continue to carry my P229 DAK .357 Sig/Surefire 500 Lumen flashlight, and 5.11 AAA Penlite combo.


************************************************
"Tonight, we are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom. Our grief has turned to anger and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done". {George W. Bush, Post 9/11}



 
Posts: 673 | Location: Long Island, N.Y. / Stephentown, N.Y. | Registered: March 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
The proper way to use supplemental lights for room clearing, etc., is to have a light mounted on the handgun and a flashlight in hand. Either one by itself is not as effective as it could be.

If someone is in my house uninvited, having a gun pointed at him will be the least of his worries. In addition, if I apprehend someone in a dark place, I’ll want to keep him illuminated while pointing the gun at him, but while doing something else with my other hand, like calling the police; that’s impossible to accomplish in a safe and effective manner with a flashlight alone.

Having a flashlight in addition to a WML allows greater flexibility; if I’ve apprehended one guy, how do I know he’s alone? A flashlight allows me to scan other areas while keeping an eye on the known threat.

This topic has been discussed countless times, BTW, and the value of having both flashlight and WML is well established.




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 42089 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
1)- What Lumen do you recommend? And why?

As high as you can get in the form-factor you want. For a compact pistol to be carried concealed, this probably means the Streamlight TLR-7A, which is 500 lumens.

2)- Battery or rechargeable?

I believe in Surefire and Streamlight for pistol lights and therefore am limited to non-rechargeable.

3)- Do holster makers all accommodate you when you order your holster with a light? Or do you need to order for a specific gun/light combo?

Depends on the holster maker. A lot of them upcharge slightly for weapon lights. Not all makers support all lights. I would say the most common support is for the full-size lights like the Streamlight TLR-1 and Surefire X300. Support for Streamlight and Surefire compact lights is secondary, and everything else is tertiary. Buy a holster that supports the light you have.

4)- Do you leave the light on the gun during range sessions? Does un-burned gunpowder damage the lens?

Yes, leave it on. Carbon buildup can be a bit of an issue, but will clean off. If you know you're going to shoot a lot, you might put a piece of tape over the lens.
 
Posts: 3548 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by cmj8591:
There's a big data base of police usage and if you do some research, you'll find that a lot of agencies are going away from weapon mounted lights because of unintentional shootings.


Please post your source for this.

I've been in law enforcement for 14 years, and am the Training Supervisor for my agency and firearms instructor for both my agency as well as the local police academy. I'm not aware of "a lot of agencies" ditching their weapon mounted lights. In fact, the use of WMLs among LE agencies continues to increase.

Yes, there is/was a concern about proper usage of WMLs vs. handheld lights in different situations, but that's why there's a large amount of policies and training geared towards that issue. The concern of misusing the WML by pointing the weapon at something they shouldn't was the primary reason cited as to why some agencies held off initially (years ago) on adopting them, but decades of LE experience with WMLs has helped lay those fears to rest, and even the majority of skeptical agency administrators have now been won over.

Handheld lights are absolutely necessary, but they can't totally replace WMLs, just like WMLs can't totally replace handheld lights. In many situations where your gun is justified in being drawn/pointed and you need a light, a WML is greatly preferable to just a separate handheld light.

Besides, there are a number of ways that WMLs can be utilized to provide light without actually pointing your weapon directly at everything you want to look at. I recommend seeking out some quality low-light handgun training, if you'd like to know more.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RogueJSK,
 
Posts: 25114 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I am just starting with a light on my P365.

It is a streamlight TLR-6

It shines at 100 lumens with a red dot laser.
It is a little dim but does help see better in a darkened room.

My leather holster worked with or without the light. It was a tight fit at first but stretched out to fit the light.

My kydex holster was ordered to fit the gun/light combination.

I have had it at one range session so far no complaints. I need to work on zeroing the laser.
Out of the box it shoots high.
 
Posts: 3542 | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by cmj8591:
There's a big data base of police usage and if you do some research, you'll find that a lot of agencies are going away from weapon mounted lights because of unintentional shootings.


Please post your source for this.



Google "accidental police shootings with weapon mounted lights" and you will get a lot of info. Look particularly at the Denver experience.

Just for perspective, because I don't want anyone to think I'm just another internet commando, I've been on the job for 39 years in a large city department. I've been a firearms and use of force instructor for about 30 years at a lot of different levels. This is long enough to know that I don't have any answers. What I do have lots of practical experience. What this experience tells me is that weapon mounted lights are a solution in search of a problem and create more problems than they solve.
 
Posts: 5 | Registered: July 15, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
For a single stack G42/43 or P365 type pistol, the Streamlight TLR-6/7 are nice. Not very powerful but still a good indoor / close range light.

For Compact size pistol (P320C / G19 / etc) I like the Surefire XC1A or the TLR7A.
 
Posts: 45631 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by cmj8591:
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by cmj8591:
There's a big data base of police usage and if you do some research, you'll find that a lot of agencies are going away from weapon mounted lights because of unintentional shootings.


Please post your source for this.



Google "accidental police shootings with weapon mounted lights" and you will get a lot of info. Look particularly at the Denver experience.

Just for perspective, because I don't want anyone to think I'm just another internet commando, I've been on the job for 39 years in a large city department. I've been a firearms and use of force instructor for about 30 years at a lot of different levels. This is long enough to know that I don't have any answers. What I do have lots of practical experience. What this experience tells me is that weapon mounted lights are a solution in search of a problem and create more problems than they solve.


Yes yes, I have data, no I don't have data, get your own data.

Run along and start another thread if you want to discuss the topic that got you to post after nearly a year.

The member asked for type of light recommendations, not your diatribe on WMLs.
 
Posts: 45631 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by T.Webb:
quote:
Originally posted by cmj8591:
I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but here it goes. Instead of mounting a light on your gun, get a good flashlight and learn to shoot with the gun and the flashlight. There's a big data base of police usage and if you do some research, you'll find that a lot of agencies are going away from weapon mounted lights because of unintentional shootings. In a high stress situation, the less complicated the better. Not everything in a self defense situation needs a loaded gun pointed at it. If your light is mounted to your gun, the gun now becomes your illumination device and it becomes very difficult to light things up without pointing a loaded gun at it. That's just one negative aspect, there are many more and I think the negatives outweigh the positives. If you want to mount a tacticool light to play around with on the range, have fun. But for a serious self defense, bed side gun, less is more.


So ... at the range, I'll continue to play with my P320/Romeo I and possibly a light, while at work I'll continue to carry my P229 DAK .357 Sig/Surefire 500 Lumen flashlight, and 5.11 AAA Penlite combo.


I encourage everyone to try different things. That's how we learn. I'm always fooling around with different systems on the range. I just don't want to bet my life on red dots and lasers and the less amount of electronics and batteries in the self defense matrix, the more confident I feel. Call me old fashion.
 
Posts: 5 | Registered: July 15, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by cmj8591:
Google "accidental police shootings with weapon mounted lights" and you will get a lot of info. Look particularly at the Denver experience.


The majority of unintentional discharges with WMLs, including in Denver, weren't a fault of WMLs in general. Instead, it was the optional grip-mounted pressure activated switch accessory in particular that caused issues, when combined with improper trigger finger placement during stressful situations.

The squeezing of this style of grip switch by the gun hand that is necessary to activate the light causes involuntary sympathetic squeezing of the trigger finger, resulting in unintentional discharges.

WMLs activated with the standard toggle or push switches on the rear of the light do not suffer from this sympathetic squeezing issue.

So yes, this particular type of grip pressure switch has been banned at a number of agencies, but not WMLs in general.

 
Posts: 25114 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by cmj8591:
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by cmj8591:
There's a big data base of police usage and if you do some research, you'll find that a lot of agencies are going away from weapon mounted lights because of unintentional shootings.





Google "accidental police shootings with weapon mounted lights" and you will get a lot of info. Look particularly at the Denver experience.

Just for perspective, because I don't want anyone to think I'm just another internet commando, I've been on the job for 39 years in a large city department. I've been a firearms and use of force instructor for about 30 years at a lot of different levels. This is long enough to know that I don't have any answers. What I do have lots of practical experience. What this experience tells me is that weapon mounted lights are a solution in search of a problem and create more problems than they solve.


Yes yes, I have data, no I don't have data, get your own data.

Run along and start another thread if you want to discuss the topic that got you to post after nearly a year.

The member asked for type of light recommendations, not your diatribe on WMLs.


He asked for my data source. I gave it to him. Not that I have to answer to you. And I did give him advise about wml's. I told m
him not to use one.
 
Posts: 5 | Registered: July 15, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
Again, you want to wax poetic about the dangers of WML, start another thread. I'm sure it'll be 'enlightening'.
 
Posts: 45631 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
posted Hide Post
I don’t use one on my Glock, I use a separate stream light flashlight.

It’s how I was taught as a cop( now retired), our policy forbid WMLs due to officers “searching” with their gun’s light vs using a streamlight. Thereby reducing uses of force (policy was if you point a gun at someone-is a use of force, and a report is required)


But I would say that if you don’t have a light on your weapon, get one in the area where your gun sits at night. You want to make sure what you are shooting in the dark, making sure it’s not your kid or wife or your guest.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

 
Posts: 7220 | Location: Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by T.Webb:
1)- What Lumen do you recommend? And why?


More than a couple hundred. Less than "second sun".

You don't need a super-high-powered flashlight with a long throw on a handgun, like you would on a rifle, because identification/engagement distances are shorter. Handgun WMLs tend to illuminate a larger/wider area but a shorter distance. And ultra-bright lights indoors can be a detriment.

100-300ish lumens isn't quite enough in my experience. I like the TLR-1HL, which is 800-1000 lumens, depending on generation. I also like the TLR-7, which is 500 lumens.

So I'd say something like 500-1000 lumens is a good range. That seems to be the "Goldilocks" level, of not too bright but not too dim.

quote:
2)- Battery or rechargeable?


Battery. You could use rechargeable batteries in it, but I don't want to have to plug the gun into the wall, or else constantly be removing the light from the gun to charge it.

quote:
3)- Do holster makers all accommodate you when you order your holster with a light? Or do you need to order for a specific gun/light combo?


Generally, it's specific to that light on that handgun.

Some holsters are more loosely formed, and can accomodate a handful of similarly-sized lights. This is more common on duty holsters, which generally don't rely on molding around the light for retention, so typically have a loose "bucket" around the light area that can accommodate most duty WMLs.

Whereas concealment holsters tend to be more tightly molded, and rely on friction fit with one specific style of light for retention. But they'll still generally work on different lights within the same model family. For example, a holster molded for a TLR-1 will fit the TLR-1, TLR-1S, and TLR-1HL. And one molded for the XC1 will fit both the XC1-A and XC-1B.

quote:
4)- Do you leave the light on the gun during range sessions?


Yes. Train how you fight. Removing the light alters the handling of the gun.

quote:
Does un-burned gunpowder damage the lens?


No, but powder fouling can coat the lens and render your light dim-to-useless.

You can either cover the lense with a piece of tape or grease/vaseline, or just be sure to wipe the lens clean after your range session.
 
Posts: 25114 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
Picture of cslinger
posted Hide Post
Also remember that one doesn’t need to POINT a firearm at a target to illuminate it at least in most interior uses. There is more then enough splash from any modern weapon light at low ready to light an average room adequately should you need to do so.

That said handheld light is absolutely recommend as well.

As for specifics, I find the Streamlight TLR7 to fit a current sweet spot. Plenty bright, decent throw/spill mix, easy front loading single battery change, small enough to be fairly unobtrusive and a wide range of accessories/boosters available. As for sheer lumens I prefer a bit more food then pure laser focus and I like 400-800ish lumens.

I always shoot with the lights attached, both to make sure gear is working and because that’s how they would be used for real. Just clean the lense when you clean the gun.

Plenty of holsters available for Streamlight and Surefire offerings.

On any “serious social” light I want a lithium primary battery. Rechargeable’s self discharge faster and tend to not be as reliable in my experience and in some cases are integral to the light and cannot be changed which is no bueno for me in this context WML or handheld.

Anyway take care, shoot safe
Chris


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 5054 | Location: On the water | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
The majority of unintentional discharges with WMLs, including in Denver, weren't a fault of WMLs in general. Instead, it was the optional grip-mounted pressure activated switch accessory in particular that caused issues, when combined with improper trigger finger placement during stressful situations.


Yes. Put the blame where it belongs, and that's not on the light itself.

I was long convinced that weapon-mounted lights were more of a gimmick than useful—until my first low light exercise that required opening doors and places a person could hide and trying to do that with a gun in one hand and flashlight in the other. That experience was all it took to make abundantly clear how useful a WML could be.




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 42089 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Blue Machine
Picture of Phred
posted Hide Post
1)- What Lumen do you recommend? And why?
I like at least 500 lumens. Candela is a more important number to look at, but that’s a subject for another time. More light gives you better situational awareness-it allows you to see more and to see more clearly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN2K7UhT6rk

2)- Battery or rechargeable?
Batteries. The ability to immediately rectify a dead light is important (carry spare batteries!). A rechargeable light that goes dead takes time to charge.
3)- Do holster makers all accommodate you when you order your holster with a light? Or do you need to order for a specific gun/light combo?
Safariland duty holsters tend to accommodate a fairly wide range of WMLs. Kydex holsters usually need to be made for a specific gun/WML combo.
4)- Do you leave the light on the gun during range sessions? Does un-burned gunpowder damage the lens?
I leave WMLs mounted during range sessions. I keep a tube of chapstick in my range bag just for the purpose of coating the lens of my WML to keep carbon and crap off of my lens.
 
Posts: 1435 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: February 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  SIG Pistols    Lights on Pistols ???

© SIGforum 2020