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E tan e epi tas
Picture of cslinger
posted
I have always been taught that when inserting a longer magazine into a given gun to be careful as not to over insert and damage the ejector. For our purposes let’s say Glock 17/19 magazine into a Glock 26.

All that said how much can one possibly over insert. Doesn’t the magazine catch act as a barrier to over insertion? I mean I guess if you SLAM it home but in general terms should the mag catch provide a barrier?

I have generally always used sleeves in guns using longer mags so this is more academic question then anything.

As always, thanks much.
Chris


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 4964 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of sourdough44
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I can’t really see it as a problem. Don’t see one ‘bottoming out’(up) more than a standard length magazine.

The other side is, a ham fisted operator can damage anything, with proper effort.

I put it in the very low likelihood category.
 
Posts: 4133 | Location: WI | Registered: February 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
Picture of Modern Day Savage
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I recently did some work on a few guns for a friend, including a brand new SP2022. While working on the gun I ran into a few challenges and managed to lightly ding the gun and mags.

Kicking myself, I decided to go through a collection of old SP2340 mags (.40 S&W/ .357 SIG) to see if they would retain 9mm (they did) and if they would lock in place. Some easily and normally locked in place, others required pushing up with additional force before fully locking in place, and gave him the mags that locked in place the easiest when I returned his guns as a mea culpa...

...which begs the question, what is over insertion ?

Certainly, if locking a mag in place results in a damaged or broken part, or if the insertion placement of the mag induces stoppages it might be fair to call it "over insertion"...beyond that though, seems to me you use enough force to lock the mag in place, no more, give it a tug to verify that it is locked, chamber a round if called for, verify the round is chambered if called for, and fret no more.

I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario in which a mag insertion required force sufficient to drive a mag far enough to break an ejector, or any other part for that matter...maybe if there was mud or snow or some other blockage but...
 
Posts: 5248 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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It varies. Some designs have more issues with this than others.

Glocks, for example, are not susceptible to over-insertion. (It's not physically possible for someone to overinsert a Glock magazine, so matter how hard they slam the magazine in.)

1911s, on the other hand, are susceptible to this.
 
Posts: 24712 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The ol' Slide Lock Reload
What is ?
With the slide in the locked open position, a loaded mag is slammed in and the slide auto-magically closes.
Slide Lock Reload

Glocks seem to be OK with this.
On a P320 or variant, you can bend/break the ejector.
And on P320 that's part of the FCU/chassis.

So I think it depends on which pistol you are slamming the mag into.
 
Posts: 229 | Registered: November 03, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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I am not familiar with Glocks, but if I were concerned, I would examine the gun and see what happens when a magazine is inserted. It should be possible to see what limits how far the mag can be inserted. In the P320 with standard magazines, for example, that’s the magazine floor plate, whether it’s flat or extended. When the magazine is inserted into the mag well, the follower contacts the slide catch lever, but the mag tube stops before it contacts the ejector. If the tube contacted and was stopped by the ejector, I wouldn’t use that magazine, and especially not if the gun were intended for serious purposes.

I teach, and practice, inserting P320 magazines very forcefully, and have never experienced or seen a problem.




“How do you know I’m mad?” said Alice.
“You must be,” said the Cat, “or you wouldn’t have come here.”
 
Posts: 41790 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
Picture of Modern Day Savage
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quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
It varies. Some designs have more issues with this than others.

Glocks, for example, are not susceptible to over-insertion.

1911s, on the other hand, are.


I've only owned one 1911 and have shot several others, but using the factory flush fit mags I never encountered a reason to use more force than necessary to lock the mags in place and never experienced any parts breakage or damage, although there is no doubt that the ejector is positioned closer to the mag when locked in...I guess, using extended mags with bumper pads combined with excessive force, I could maybe see damage occurring.
 
Posts: 5248 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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None of my P320's, which comprise all the models, all the frames and sizes, and all the magazine combinations available, will allow the magazine to contact the ejector with any force, even bottomed out against the base plate, even with the dog ears cut off, even with aftermarket baseplates.

While there may be pistols in which the magazine can be hyper-inserted with the slide locked back, I can't think of any, and it would be a design flaw or a unique manufacturing flaw.

In any event, inserting the magazine until it snaps into place against the mag catch, should prevent hyper-insertion, or over-insertion.

The whole idea of bumper pads on magazines is to ensure positive seating, with the hand still applying upward pressure after the mag has reached it's upward or most-seated limit, to ensure that it's gone all the way.

What really sucks is thinking it's seated, cycling the slide to find nothing in the chamber on that first shot, then having the magazine fall out. I'm probably the only one to ever do that, though.
 
Posts: 4573 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
I've only owned one 1911 and have shot several others, but using the factory flush fit mags I never encountered a reason to use more force than necessary to lock the mags in place and never experienced any parts breakage or damage


It's primarily an issue with extended magazines, where the baseplate is unable to limit insertion. Such as slamming a traditional Government/Commander magazine into an Officer 1911.

This is why most 1911 extended magazines make use of grip spacers, overinsertion limit tabs, or the like.

 
Posts: 24712 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Few years back had a Kimber compact .45 and when I went to clean after shooting noticed it had a broken ejector. Called Kimber to order a new one and immediately guy on phone asked if I had been using a regular sized magazine. I then remembered that when I went shooting, I had grabbed several compact mags and 1 Colt regular sized mag and used all during the session. Apparently after all the years with my duty weapon, SIG p220, I was in the habit of slamming the magazine in. On my p220 when I slammed the mag in, it would knock the slide release off and would load the next round. Just a positive point of that particular p220 which I liked and got used to. Made it easier on the firing line when I had to use 2 mags to most everyones 1 mag of the wonder nine they were using. anyway, guy told me not to use the regular sized magazine in my compact Kimber as it would most always cause cracking of the ejector resulting in it breaking.
 
Posts: 189 | Location: DFW, TX | Registered: April 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
Picture of cslinger
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Thanks all.

Yes I was talking about larger mags then a given gun was designed for.

I had heard first hand accounts of it causing issues with 1911s but nothing else. Just a curiosity to me really.


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 4964 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
I teach, and practice, inserting P320 magazines very forcefully, and have never experienced or seen a problem.

Google "P320 Damaged Ejectors" and read the thread on Enos.
I did not want to post a link to another gun forum on here.
After re-reading it, I think most of the damage was with aftermarket basepads.
Although SIG reported that it was with the 21rd mag.
 
Posts: 229 | Registered: November 03, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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