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Bought a new CZ - Edit, looked like used and doesn't work. Login/Join 
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
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quote:
Originally posted by PGT:
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
The finish on CZ barrels is very lame IMO

Yup. And, no way you can compare it to the SIG DLC barrel. To the blued barrel, yes, where it's lame, too, but not to the DLC one. They don't name it Diamond Like Carbon for nothing.


the finish on my P226 Combat-TB rubbed off like that RAMI when using BC GunScrubber to clean it the first time. I called Sig and they offered to sell me another for 20% off.

Phosphate barrel like the one on the Combat also sucks. The only one that's worth its name is the DLC.
 
Posts: 16159 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As a disclaimer, I am not big into CZs, but I sure like the ones I have, CZ-85 Combat and CZ-75B. Mine were purchased new and the finish does not compare to a Sig or HK -- certainly not the internal finish.

It has been at least a year but I recall a video by Military Arms Channel where they visit the CZ factory and show that there is a lot more hand fitting and finishing to the CZ75s than you might expect. Maybe yours went through the assembly/test fire/resolve cycle more than once?

You should end up with exactly the pistol you want and paid for and shooting it might further imperil your chances of making a change but if the pistol functions as you expect, I'd be real tempted to forgo the hassle of shipping and a second transfer to end up with a little better paint.

Henryrifle
 
Posts: 481 | Location: Atlanta | Registered: November 11, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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Originally posted by henryrifle:
As a disclaimer, I am not big into CZs, but I sure like the ones I have, CZ-85 Combat and CZ-75B. Mine were purchased new and the finish does not compare to a Sig or HK -- certainly not the internal finish.

It has been at least a year but I recall a video by Military Arms Channel where they visit the CZ factory and show that there is a lot more hand fitting and finishing to the CZ75s than you might expect. Maybe yours went through the assembly/test fire/resolve cycle more than once?

You should end up with exactly the pistol you want and paid for and shooting it might further imperil your chances of making a change but if the pistol functions as you expect, I'd be real tempted to forgo the hassle of shipping and a second transfer to end up with a little better paint.
Henryrifle


I'm leaning towards your thought process on it. As excited as I was to go shoot it yesterday I held off until I could find out if I have a problem with the finish or why it looks this way. I compared it to my Legion that has 5,000+ rounds through it, no rail wear or smileys yet and I abuse the heck out of it as well as Legions supposedly having poor finishes. My Legion looks like it did the day I bought it. My other high round count SIG has exactly one spot of wear to the frame rail to the left of the hammer and that's it, it has about 3,500 rounds +/- on it. I may just be comparing apples to oranges here, I don't know.

I sent pictures to them about 45 minutes ago and the guy I spoke with will have his son (their CZ expert) look at them and get back to me. I can already guess the response - "they all look like that", just want to know if it's actually correct or not.



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 12190 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My 75B has the same bbl finish and showed smileys after the first range trip.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You can do it your own way, if it's done just how I say."
 
Posts: 7274 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 04, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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So the shop I bought it from had their "CZ expert" call me back. He said at first to wipe the lube off, I then told him I did do that and the pics video show metal to metal wear not reflections from lube. He then went on to tell me it was normal wear, but if I was unhappy to call CZ and that they have great customer service.

At this point I figured there was no point in further discussing it with him. I'll call CZ and get their opinion on it (still waiting call back from VM left yesterday). I probably just got a shitty example from them and as long as it works 100% it's not worth fighting over.

Anyone that can post a pic of slide/frame rails of their 2075 or 75 it'd be appreciated just so I can know if I got a crappy one or if this is normal.



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 12190 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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https://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=89377.0
I wouldn't worry. My 75 SA and TS both came new dripping in Factory oil with barrel wear.
 
Posts: 157 | Location: Out West | Registered: November 05, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
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In my experience CZs tend to have really crappy interior and barrel finishing that has always given me pause and fear as to their ultimate functionality.........and every damn one of them has shot lights out and been as reliable as a blacksmith anvil.

Not saying you shouldn’t contact CZUSA if you are not happy just saying that CZ has never been the paradigm of fit and finish....but in spite of that damn they are great guns.

Just my 2 cents.


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 3576 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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Originally posted by Chicane:
https://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=89377.0
I wouldn't worry. My 75 SA and TS both came new dripping in Factory oil with barrel wear.


That covers barrel, which I've found wears pretty darn quickly. My concern now is the rails, which have bear metal exposed before even shooting it. My 90's era SIGs show far, far less wear than this unfired gun.



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 12190 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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On my SP01 the frame rails wore off most any finish very quickly too but that is steel. At least SIG anodizes the aluminum alloy frame but apparently CZ does nothing like that which makes one wonder what the frame life would be on an aluminum alloy frame CZ. I am sure it must be many thousands of rounds if kept well lubed but I bet SIG frame would last substantially longer though hardly any one would ever shoot close to enough to wear one out. My late 90s American made P226 has at least 3000 rounds through it and the black finish on the frame rails looks almost new with no metal showing.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: grumpy1,


“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”
― Benjamin Franklin
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."
― Margaret Thatcher
 
Posts: 8431 | Location: Northern Illinois | Registered: March 20, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diversified Hobbyist
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Originally posted by Skins2881:
That covers barrel, which I've found wears pretty darn quickly. My concern now is the rails, which have bear metal exposed before even shooting it. My 90's era SIGs show far, far less wear than this unfired gun.


I already responded to you on the other forum you posted at but will not add to that thread as I sense a possible 'sour grapes instigator' is replying in that thread.

Do not compare the NIB finish on CZ pistols to that of the SIG pistols, otherwise you are likely to never be happy.

I noted grumpy1 (post below yours) wondered about the service life of the aluminum framed CZs.
Based upon the Czech police requirements and testing, the minimum required service life for the P-01 series is 15,000 rounds of +P ammo.


Picture of my own (2003) P-01 showing typical wear points (red arrows) at hammer tip, tips of trigger bar, tip of firing pin block lifter, top of locking block area and along frame rail (look at these areas on your pistol).
This pistol has several hundred rounds through it and is the only aluminum framed CZ I own.
Grease has always been used to lubricate the slide/frame rails.
Note that this one came with the entire frame powder coated so it will better show typical wear areas than the bare metal insides of yours.




Next is a picture of my (2015) 97B slide which by best estimate has less than 20 rounds through it (factory target shows 5).
I tested this pistol for function with 10 rounds and put it on the shelf to convert to SAO, hence the low round count.
[Note the trigger (oops) firing pin block has been removed as part of the SAO conversion, this pistol will be used under controlled conditions as a range use only target pistol].
The two arrows at the lower right show the result of the slide wear at the point where the trigger bar contacts it.




This is a picture of my (2017) Shadow 2 slide.
The frame rails are devoid of any finish and show a light "wear" mark along the length of both sides.
This pistol (also converted to SAO) has not been fired by me.
I don't know if the factory fired this pistol, although I suspect they did, as no test target is included with these.
Contrary to an implication on the other forum, I am certain that this pistol was NOT fired by the dealer prior to my purchasing it.



This picture (1993 CZ-75C) shows wear at the base of the hammer and frame which typically occurs due to firing the pistol (not cycling by hand).



Based upon the pictures and video you posted when compared to the new CZs I have purchased over the past 25 years, your pistol appears to have little more than handling wear.
Additionally, the overall finish on CZs seemed to improve during the 90s up to recent years where it now seems they tend to skip finishing on areas that are not-visible on the assembled pistol.
The quality of the interior finishing, however, can be all over the map.

You may want to look up videos on YouTube of the CZ factory where they show the employees racking the slides while dry as these illustrate how the wear may occur.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Steve 22X,


-----------------------------------
Regards, Steve
The anticipation is often greater than the actual reward
 
Posts: 2416 | Location: Wylie, Texas | Registered: November 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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Steve, thank you for posting the pictures, that is exactly what my mine looks like. Minus the wear around the hammer. I am glad you took the time. I am not sure what the deal was with the one poster on the CZ forum, he seemed to have a real big ax to grind with the seller.

I'm just going to lube it up and shoot it, if it works case closed.

Thanks again!



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 12190 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diversified Hobbyist
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Originally posted by Skins2881:
Steve, thank you for posting the pictures, that is exactly what my mine looks like. Minus the wear around the hammer. I am glad you took the time. I am not sure what the deal was with the one poster on the CZ forum, he seemed to have a real big ax to grind with the seller.

I'm just going to lube it up and shoot it, if it works case closed.

Thanks again!


You are welcome, enjoy your new Rami. Smile


-----------------------------------
Regards, Steve
The anticipation is often greater than the actual reward
 
Posts: 2416 | Location: Wylie, Texas | Registered: November 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
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Let us know how it goes. I expect you will be a bit like me and think holy hell these things shoot. They don’t look like they will but damn....

Enjoy.


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 3576 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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Originally posted by cslinger:
Let us know how it goes. I expect you will be a bit like me and think holy hell these things shoot. They don’t look like they will but damn....

Enjoy.


I'm actually quite upset about the shooting it part. Messed up my ribs somehow, hurts like hell, probably not going to get to shoot it for a while. Worse part is fiancée got a new LC9 and she wants to go without me to pop it's cherry.

Don't worry there will be pictures and range report thread, I promise. Just no more pictures of the inside of the gun hopefully.



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 12190 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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So I shot my new RAMI today after a match today. Didn't have much time to put into it, but I got three mags each of the included 10 rounder and 14 rounder. First off you better be heman to get past round 9 or 13, second off it's a PITA to load in general. Also the 14 rounder doesn't drop freely and both mags require dropping mag with off hand, if I use dominant hand to drop it the heal of my hand stops it from falling freely.

As for the shooting it's super accurate, but I had four failure to feed/go into battery. Both mags had same issue, 2/3 for each one, of six mags I had two run flawlessly.

Loved the few CZs I've previously shot, this one sucks ass. The rail wear had me pissed, but the not working thing really has me steamed. Back to CZ for the POS, then on GB. Sucks, I wanted to love this gun so much, it's freaking sexy. Now I know why I'm a SIG guy, finish and reliability do matter to me.

Frown Frown Frown



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 12190 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My eyes aren’t the greatest but it doesn’t look like the serial number on the cz box on gunbroker matches the serial number on the slide in pic 3
 
Posts: 1028 | Location: Louisville, Kentucky | Registered: August 28, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Can't see most of your pictures.
 
Posts: 17051 | Location: Northern Vermont | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
So I shot my new RAMI today after a match today. Didn't have much time to put into it, but I got three mags each of the included 10 rounder and 14 rounder. First off you better be heman to get past round 9 or 13, second off it's a PITA to load in general. Also the 14 rounder doesn't drop freely and both mags require dropping mag with off hand, if I use dominant hand to drop it the heal of my hand stops it from falling freely.

As for the shooting it's super accurate, but I had four failure to feed/go into battery. Both mags had same issue, 2/3 for each one, of six mags I had two run flawlessly.

Loved the few CZs I've previously shot, this one sucks ass. The rail wear had me pissed, but the not working thing really has me steamed. Back to CZ for the POS, then on GB. Sucks, I wanted to love this gun so much, it's freaking sexy. Now I know why I'm a SIG guy, finish and reliability do matter to me.

Frown Frown Frown



Ok OP - time to give you some tough love.

Other folks have said it gently in a variety of ways, but I’ll give it to you straight.

#1 you bought the wrong gun - no one buys cz for fit and finish. I recently bought a shadow 2 and was miffed about a blemish on the flats of the slide, and only because the fit and finish on the rest of the gun was immaculate (for a cz).

#2 your gun probably wasn’t shot - the wear is consistent with a cz that has sat dry on a shelf and has been finger fucked a bunch. Get over it, you bought it sight unseen.


#3 you put a few rounds through it and walk away thinking it’s unreliable - this shows a lack of knowledge, especially with CZ’s

The fit and finish on your gun isn’t even bad for a cz. I had a 75-b that literally had huge gouges inside of the dustcover from a tool gone wrong. Didn’t effect function at all.

You want to see some really bad fit and finish? Go check out a recent Beretta M9/92FS built in Italy or Galletin. Then understand that Beretta does not hand fit anything.


CZ’s are not collectors guns, they have nothing to do with a modern sig or a Glock or an HK. CZ’s are old world guns, built with many manual processes like hand fitting, hand polishing etc. it’s 100% expected to see finish issues, tool marks, etc. Also given the hand fitting, you need to shoot at least 500 rounds before you walk away with a reliability impression.

Of course people will chime in and say theirs ran 100% out of the box blah blah...if you want a boring gun with perfect fit and finish that runs 100% out of the box go buy a Glock 19.

What you have in your hands is a new, compact fighting gun made to old world standards. It’s made for light lubrication, and intended to shoot thousands and thousands of rounds through it. It’s a combat weapon, not a finger fucking toy that you will place on an embroidered satin pillow in your safe.

Stop whining, go buy 2k rounds of 9, and shoot the living piss out of it. Come back with a report that will most likely say that you can’t believe you were being such a wuss about it, that the gun is accurate and reliable, and just needed you to shoot it instead of fondle it.

I’m willing to bet that if you take my advice and sack up by shooting the snot out of it - you’ll never part ways with it.

P.S. if you want a cz that has nice fit and finish - go find a Swiss made (not US) Sphinx SDP subcompact. You’ll pay more than double for mostly the same gun, with a polymer lower.



-Freq
 
Posts: 179 | Registered: May 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get on the fifty!
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Even my 3k Parrot has the rails without finish/polished. Just the parts getting to know each other on yours Wink I've been very lucky with my recent CZ's in the finish department as they are flawless. I do have an SP-01 with a bump in the green finish but oh well.


Shoot the crap out of it Big Grin




When in doubt, pinky out.
 
Posts: 3039 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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CZ’s are not collectors guns, they have nothing to do with a modern sig or a Glock or an HK. CZ’s are old world guns, built with many manual processes like hand fitting, hand polishing etc. it’s 100% expected to see finish issues, tool marks, etc. Also given the hand fitting, you need to shoot at least 500 rounds before you walk away with a reliability impression.

Of course people will chime in and say theirs ran 100% out of the box blah blah...if you want a out of the box go buy a Glock 19.

What you have in your hands is a new, compact fighting gun made to old world standards. It’s made for light lubrication, and intended to shoot thousands and thousands of rounds through it. It’s a combat weapon, not a finger fucking toy that you will place on an embroidered satin pillow in your safe.

Stop whining, go buy 2k rounds of 9, and shoot the living piss out of it. Come back with a report that will most likely say that you can’t believe you were being such a wuss about it, that the gun is accurate and reliable, and just needed you to shoot it instead of fondle it.


I don't own a single gun that sits in a safe, this gun is going to a be carry gun. The thing is dead on balls accurate, I shot it better than the 226 I was shooting at the match. I do need it to work 100% if I am going to carry it.

2,000 rounds is a $400 investment to see if it will work itself out. Not going to drop that kind of money or time into it.

If I had time yesterday I would have shot more than 6 mags/80 rounds through it. I had to leave the range at a certain time to meet someone. Wanted to try my SD ammo, but wasn't going to waste that since it couldn't cycle ball.

Do you have any idea other than running 2,000 rounds through it why it wouldn't go into battery? If it matters at all it was almost every time when I was down to one or two rounds left in mag. I'll take a picture with snap cap or spent cartridge to show what it looked like. Was using UMC ammo. Is the brass slightly larger diameter than other brands? I had brought four types of ball to test with me and some HST +p, just ran out of time.

Was talking with someone at the match who was having a similar problem with a Tactical Sport Orange which really surprised me. He was talking about OAL of his reloads as the likely cause, not smart enough about gun mechanics of reloading to know if that was plausible.

I will likely go dump a bunch of mags into the berm and see if it does need a little breaking in. Is failure to go into battery a problem that just goes away with time?

My typical "testing" for any new gun is 500 rounds. 400 ball and 100 SD. Only gun I ever had to send back to a manufacturer was M11-A1 for a bad extractor. Besides the rough start for that one, every SIG pistol I own has been 100% reliable, out of the box and after thousands of rounds. I'll put another couple hundred rounds through it to see if it needs break in, but not 2,000.



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 12190 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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