I own various P-series German pistols, and some of the more recent exeter versions. My experience out of Exeter hasn't been so great in general, and even the Legions I own aren't consistent or as good as some of the older German pistols.
Specifically, on the Legions, I'd expect for the price a good trigger, especially as sold as a GGI trigger. On one of the Legions, it's quite good; not as good as if GGI had worked on it, but good. On another Legion, it's gritty. It's functional, acceptable for a service grade pistol, but not for a "premier" pistol. The finishes rub off.
I don't like the idea that they started out putting GGI triggers in the Legions, still advertise it as such, but stick a lesser stamped, grittier trigger in the pistol and still charge top dollar. It compromises confidence in the pistol and in Sig, and it sends insults the intelligence. To me, it's Sig giving the bird finger.
I'm not happy with some of Sig's customer service, especially orders placed that were cancelled or partially shipped, or their prices...but that's getting far afield.
For double action pistols, I think Sig's pistols are some of the best. I do not care for the extended beavertail on more modern iterations, or for the rail. I don't care for Sig's x-ray offering, especially on the Legions, etc...there's better to be had.
I like Sig's DAK trigger system.
I was interested in the P227 and P224, but they wouldn't run reliably out of the box when the Sig representatives offered them for demonstration at a Sig day event...because they put the damn things on the line bone dry, and couldn't understand why it was a problem. I'm sure they'd have probably done better if properly maintained, but my confidence was shot enough that I didn't buy.
The P226 is one of the best 9mm's on the market, and one of the best da/sa pistols on the market. The P220 is one of the best out of the box .45's on the market, but again I'd say I like the older pistols better. My personal choice in the metal P-series is the P229 in .40 as a concealable, overall pistol, and I really like the P239 in .40 for an inside the waistband pistol.
For me it may be that the rail and tail are bulkier and longer and sharper, or maybe just that the older pistols have long since failed if they were going to and are reliable without any new-pistol issues to deal with. I like them better and generally don't have to deal with Sig at all, which is nice.
I think they’ve learned from past issues, and I think this current ownership wants to own up and fix issues and put out a quality gun.
I believe that you are terribly confused here as to the facts about what is going on here.
GrayGuns only supplies (supplied) the actual trigger, the single metal part you put your finger on. In no way do, or did, they ever supply action work (trigger job) to the Legion's as purchased from Sig.
I own mid-90s P220/P226s and more recent production. The DA triggers are smoother on the mid-90s guns and all of them are 100% reliable.
The Legion P226 SAO is fantastic.
P220 German gun here, as well as current (in the last 7 years) production M11A1, P290, & a P225A1. All as great guns, accurate, as close to 100% reliable as anything mechanical can be, but each of the current ones took a bit of breaking in to smooth things up. Here's the comparison:
P220, German made, factory nickled, with a superb DA & SA trigger. Absolutely reliable, in fact, I've never had a malfunction with this gun. I shoot mostly lead alloy SWC's with it, as well as factory FMJ & JHP ammunition. It's as good as any of my semi-tricked out 1911's. A great gun in all respects.
M11A1, some slight trigger grittiness that smoothed out after <100 rouunds.
P290, light trigger strikes, and a dark front night sight required a trip back to Exeter which Sig paid for. I had it back in < two weeks and it was a 2nd hand gun, a fact that I told to the CS person while setting up the trip back.
P225A1, gritty DA trigger, but the SA was just fine. This smoothed out after 100 rounds or so and is now as good as my factory nickled German P220. In a word, superb.
Overall, in my opinion, Sig makes a great gun, somewhat more expensive when compared to other major manufacturer's offerings, but the quality is there. They do miss the mark with some of the smaller details that should have been caught on the QC inspection, however. I trust the company to make it right, and their CS people have done so, even with my 2nd hand P290. It's hard to fault Sig in these regards. I'm buying production guns, not custom, and that means an occasional one is going to get by the QC guys. I accept the fact that as a buyer, it's my responsibility to check the gun out before I buy, and either accept or reject it.
From that point on, if a manufacturing defect is noted, it's Sig's responsibility to help me, if it's normal wear and tear, or something that I should of found on pre-buy inspection, it's my fault. I see a lot of internet,"whoa is me, I was gipped but the fat-cat bean counters at the factory" BS. I just don't understand the internet whining when the tale told clearly shows the OP didn't do his homework or an expectation of custom gun performance at a price that's unrealistic. The reality is that you can't expect custom gun fit, finish and performance for the extra $100 over other manufacturers prices that you're paying for a Sig. HTH's Rod
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My experience with Sig customer service hasn't been stellar.
This was a number of years ago and frankly has changed my opinion of the brand to a point, where I won't consider another Sig.
P220st was a shotgun, wouldn't group at all.
Sent pistol in on my dime, which with overnight UPS was expensive.
Shipped pistol back and they did nothing, said it was fine.
At the range, same thing.
Called CS again, asking did you test-fire, they said no.
Shipped pistol back (on my dime), this time they replaced the slide with one that had damaged night sights.
Handgun functioned properly and grouped rather well... however, the sights were damaged and I requested a replacement, CS wouldn't ship sights and issued a UPS tag for repair.
I still have the pistol but probably won't be purchasing a new manufactured Sig.
To repair a defective firearm it cost me out of pocket at least $125 in overnight charges, when they could have been gracious enough to charge me for a lower class of shipping and issued a label.
My p228 hood chipped on the first range outing and sam2 BS dance.
They fitted a whole new slide and barrel to the handgun and when I got it back, I gave it to my son.
I might consider a p210 American, though I really want a 1949.
Currently, the guns look and feel nice, don't know about longevity of their recent manufacture though.
I think Sig still has challengesand feelthat though the p320 is a step in the right direction, it lacks elegance and efficiency, primarily size and barrel height/ clumsiness.
A 9mm is just that, should be no larger than a P08, P38, BHP, S&W 39.
Further, the P365 is a leap in the right direction, scale that up and it would be a fantastic full-size.
anyhow, I wish Sig the best and if they offer a solution that is sound in design and principle, I will consider them again.
I voted "below what it should be".
I have a Legion P226. I has been wonderful....turned me into a Sig fan. About 30,000 rounds through it with ONE FTF and it was a reload no less. Finish, oddly enough, has been tough as nails. Lots of holster draws.
The Legion motivated me to buy a P226 Stainless Elite. Brass to face and FTF. Lots of them.
I also bought a P220 Stainless Elite. Lots of FTF.
Dumped both guns. The P220 turned into a HK45 and the P226 turned into a Wilson Combat Brigadier 92.
|addicted to trailing-throttle oversteer|
My own NH P-SIGs have been fine. Except for the P226 Elite Dark with its well-known rear sight issue, everything else has performed as expected. Appearance-wise I don't like the anodizing of the alloy frames compared to what the Germans did, but at least they've held up well. I don't do long extractor guns, though, and go out of my way to avoid them.
In the store I've handled many NH P-SIGs. Few problems encountered NIB; the occasional completely dry gun, some rough operation issues with early P225A/A1/whatever pistols...that's about it. There's the known problems with other models to deal with as a dealer: the 14rd P227 mags, P224 reliability particularly with the 40S&W version, Legion finish issues with early guns, the infamous blank spot on the inside of SOME P-SIGs...that sort of thing.
Are they as good as I think they should be...likely not but so few things are out here in the real world. So I voted 'Okay'. The finish issues can be bothersome considering that the usually less expensive Berettas (aside from the M9A3) don't seem to have the same kinds of issues. Functional issues have not been present in my P-SIGs aside from that vile rear sight I wrote about above. But certainly better, more thorough testing should be mandatory for the company, as other product lines have proven out. Besides, for the kind of cash SIG expects buyers to dole out, the overall quality should be pushing to be better than just 'okay'. I know I'm contradicting myself a bit from the first sentence of this paragraph, but it is what it is. If SIG expects the buyer to 'Never Settle', then a better job from them is mandatory.
The newest P series SIg Sauer Pistol I own is a P226 Equinox I bought in .40 S&W a couple years ago as it was the only non-Californicated P226 I could find locally. I promptly bought a 9mm conversion kit for it and have been quite happy with it.
I recently bought a P220 West German as there was one available locally. It appears to have an interesting start to the trigger press sequence (maybe where the crunchenticker nickname comes from?). It seems like it pulls the hammer back to about where the safety intercept notch is on later pistols, double clutches, then carries on. I’ll have to shoot it some more and see how much it bothers me, but it definitely different. I don’t know if this is normal for the spur hammered pistols, or just something with this one.
I’ve been carrying a P228 for several years. While I love it, I don’t love having to aggressively wipe it down with a wet silicone cloth (periodically tuned up with a spray bottle of silicone oil) to keep it from rusting. Despite spraying a small squirt of oil directly on the screw heads every night, then rubbing it in, I can’t seem to avoid the blued screws rusting at least every six months if not more frequently. I’m probably going to break down and go to stainless screws even though I’d rather not.
My LGS supposedly has a couple of 2022s in 9mm on order. If they show up I’ll likely give one of them a shot. It would sure be nice to have a more modern finish...
See every 2022 thread on here, among those in the know, they are one of SIGs best kept secrets. Fantastic gun for the price, fantastic gun period.
A couple SIGs and a few others
As much as I’ve been down on sig, the quality of my P-series sigs are excellent. I have a 226 tacops, 229 EE, 229 Legion, 227 compact, 239 in 357sig, and they are outstanding and have been extremely reliable.
I don't own as many handguns as others around here, but, of those that I own, only two have ever given me any problems (both were purchased new) - a P226 took two trips to Sig to get it fixed, and a P220. I have a P239 that has been flawless.
Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice - pull down your pants and slide on the ice.
ʘ ͜ʖ ʘ
|10mm is The|
Boom of Doom
My most recent purchase is a Legion P220 10mm da/sa.
It has treated me well, but I'm no connoisseur.
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The Dhimocrats love America like ticks love a hound.
I own several "Mastershops" and an M11A1 and a Legion DA/SA. All superb, no discernible difference in quality. The Americans have a great fit and finish and have performed flawlessly.
I own two SIG P229s. One is a relatively modern P229R with the newer slide and American-made frame. The other is an older no-rail P229 with a legacy slide and a West German made frame.
Both have functioned perfectly. In terms of overall build quality, I don't see any obvious differences between the two. I like the appearance of the no-rail frame and legacy slide better.
I have never owned an all-German SIG to compare to.
I've had a considerable amount of quality problems with SIG P series pistols, and won't buy more.
I had several P220s with the milled slides and internal extractors that gave trouble. SIG never acknowledged the problem, but did re-design the whole slide. Bruce Gray promised a fix, but it took years, and I'm not sure the fix worked. I moved on. SIG also widened the trigger on the P220 to make it use the same trigger as the P226, P228, and P229. Did not like that either.
Bought a new P226ST that had bad Check Mate magazines from the start. It also came with the wrong trigger bar. SIG CUSTOMER SERVICE would not help. Deny, Deny, Deny. Had to repair on my nickel.
Had several P229s that had ill fitted slides, wrong trigger bars, machine tool marks inside, chewed up frames, and other assorted problems.
The DAK pistols were never in compliance with the hyped specifications that SIG printed, were unreliable, and never could be relied on, even after they were modified. Why bother. Yes, I tried them, and I could qualify with them, but I finally gave up and moved on.
You already know that I voted "horrible", so I won't go on. Glad you did not ask about the P320.
|3° that never cooled|
I voted that current quality is OK. I started buying/using/carrying DA/SA SIGs in the '80s. Obviously, these were German guns, P220s, P226s, P228s,etc. Never had a concern about getting a "good one" or "bad one", or an issue with any of them. So I admit a personal bias in favor of the German guns. That being said, in the last few years, I've owned a small sample of the US manufactured SIGs,a P226/MK25,M11-A1, and most recently one of the Legacy type P229CC models. Still have the last two. None used much, but to this point at least, they have functioned reliably with any ammunition I used, displayed acceptable accuracy, and the MIM filled lock work has resulted in, not light, but very smooth DA triggers. Barrel/slide fit on the three is very good, but slide frame fit is a bit more "relaxed" than on the average German DA/SA SIGs I had.....ymmv
COTEP #640, NRA Life
We have two M11 A-1’s, two 226’s, and one 220, and they have all ran great. Both M11’s got the Sig AEP, to remove that very gritty feeling, and the newer 226went to Grayguns for the full P-PAK install/action job, and has been flawless.
No complaints here...
I started shooting about 5-6 years ago, and have had pretty great experience with SIG
229 extreme - perfect performance, was my first gun still shoot it in uspsa sometimes and love it. no malfunctions ever. Nothing replaced on it yet.
226's tacops, extreme, SAO, regular one with the e2 grips - all perfect no malfunctions of any kind
had a dark elite 229 but traded it due to rear sight being loose. Gun never malfunctioned.
Had p250 in .380 that did jam a bit. Looking back it could have been ammo or me limpwristing. It was one of my first guns and I didn't shoot it much.
For me I think SIG's are great guns and the da/sa pistols for me have been 100% reliable.
For me if it says HK or SIG on it it's a winner.
p229Extreme/P226Tac-Ops/P226 Extreme/P226 SAO) P226 X-5 Blue Moon/P226 X-5 Black and White
Read all of the replies with interest, as I was curious to see what was called out as indicators of quality. As I expected it seems there are many viewpoints and ranking along those lines. For me the first thing I look at is the fitment, and by that I mean frame to slide, trigger fit and play, tolerances in the stack ups of assembly, etc. I enjoy my firearms from an engineering standpoint equally as much as a performance standpoint; i.e. they are not just tools to me.
That said, the dozen or so W. German pistols I've owned, including the 6 I have now, exhibit a much higher degree of fitment than the 1/2 dozen newer (made within last 10 years) models I have had (only kept a SAO 226 legion out of that batch). Without fail the frame to slide fit of every single W. German pistol was approaching high end 1911 levels. I've yet to see a new one close, my legion is the best of what I have had, and it isn't the equal of the worst of my early guns. Some people don't care, or find that a worthless comparator, but hey, it is important to me, and correlates to the fitment of other parts in my limited experience. I will say the trigger of the legion is good, but not awesome, and for similar money the trigger of my Wilson Combat Centurion is better, yes, I know "custom" vs. factory, but they tout the Legion as a custom basically, so for me a fair comparison.
I've sort of moved on to higher end 1911s, so I don't see myself getting any new Sigs in the near future, but I will hold onto the old ones, I know that for what I'm looking for, I can't replace them with new.
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