|Sigforum K9 handler|
We read a lot about the belief that the "WEST GERMAN" SIG P Series pistols are the pinnacle of the P Series line. That the quality is unmatched, and the new P Series pistols are just junk, junk, and more junk.
I am talking specifically, and only, about the DA/SA pistols that SIG produces. The P226, P228, P229, P220, SP2022, and the like.
Perception is sometimes reality, and what is your perception of the quality of the current production DA/SA guns. I am not interested in the drama that goes on with the striker fired "As the World Turns" saga, the issues, or any of that PR mess.
I just want to take a minute to discuss current quality without my input or take, and by the poll you can contribute anonymously.
|Sigforum K9 handler|
Oh, and examples of good or bad quality would be appreciated.
|It's my way or the Highway|
Went on a little Legion phase followed by a 229.....
All three exude really high quality. Being an owner of a West German 226 and 228 they are every bit as good as the old wonder years....
.....and I dig the long extractor too.
I have a P226 Tacops. Fit and finish are superb. Accuracy and "smoothness" was on par with my West German 226. I believe it is higher quality than my 2005ish 226.
|Sigforum K9 handler|
It is interesting to note that the 2005ish time frame was horrible times for DA/SA quality.
Thanks for the input.
Please anyone with good or bad stories please share. This is a thread I have wanted to put up for a while to balance what I see with what others are seeing.
I am happy with all of my DA/SA Sigs. I am most fond of those with the SRT. My favorite is the P226. I have the Legion 226 but have not yet taken it to the range.
I have 2 228's- a 2-tone KE and an all-black KF. The KE is exceptionally fine in its fit and finish. There's just something about it.
I had a German 226 (think it was KJ) that had seen its share of use but was smooth as silk internally. Excellent build quality.
But more specifically to the question- I had an all-black AE (1995) 229 for some years, another very finely finished gun that operated perfectly. The only reason I sold it was that I was getting out of .357 Sig. Otherwise I would have kept it. I wanted one in 9mm with the original slide configuration like that older one so last year I happened to find a newer production model, from 2016.
The AE had a slightly more glossy finish on the slide and frame, and more finely-done slide engraving and frame-stamping. Other than that, this newer one is of the same build and operational quality. It has a very good stock trigger. I have thought about sending it out for work but it's good enough that I haven't as of yet.
So- if a bit more finish quality is important, the older one came out ahead in that regard.
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In the 90s I owned a P226, 228 and 230. The current DA/SA Sig triggers seem to be much better. I know, blasphemy, but I do think the current guns have good triggers. My last Sig was a P229 carry SAS.
Love the features of the P229 Legion but find the PVD finish week at "corners."
NRA Life Member
Although limited to the P-series DA/SA guns, this thread is really about American vs German made SIGs.
I personally don't care, because I judge my SIGs individually, be they W. Germans, Germans, hybrids, or Americans. I'm not going to praise, or condemn, a whole group of guns, based on when, or where, they were made.
So, what's the definition of "quality"? To me, it's reliability, fit and finish, trigger, accuracy. And, go from there.
|Sigforum K9 handler|
That's fair enough.
There were bits in time to where US quality was undoubtedly horrid. MIM P226 trigger bars. Slides that were so bad out of spec that guns wouldn't even run the case rim under the extractor when it fed. Saw a gun once that the top of the slide was so paper think that the front of the ejection port was sharp.
Luckily things got better.
I voted OK
I have limited experience with the new production, but based on my sample size of one I was disappointed input of the box quality. I ordered a BNIB P239 SAS Gen2 in 357 SIG. I cleaned and lubricated the pistol then headed to the range. The very first round from the first magazine jammed on the feed ramp and would not chamber. Tried the other magazine with the same result. FMJ ammo measured to specification. I then tried several other brands and types of ammo before I got Winchester Ranger JHP to chamber ~ 50%. This is a Sig "custom" gun, right? Sent it back to Sig where they fixed it. No other problems other than a slide to frame rattle common on the P239.
Disappointed in New Sig after stellar experience with a late 1980's P226. I have not purchased another new DA/SA Sig since.. Just a P938, which I have finally resolved all of the issues and is 100% reliable.
All that said, I will probably purchase a P220 10 mm. a P229, and a second P938 sometime in the next 2 years.
I plan no striker fired purchases for the foreseeable future.This message has been edited. Last edited by: burnetma,
I voted that he new Sigs are OK. I have been a Sig armorer for about 22 years. I have handled many of all breeds, right up to my new Legacy 220R. I will say that the older, pre Exeter guns (German) were smoother and produced less wear on the frames than their stainless counterparts. This was in the days before greasing Sigs became a thing. All you needed was oil, and wear was minimal.
The only pre-Exeter guns that seemed punish their frames were the P229’s. They almost universally developed gouging on the underside of the rails. I saw dozens and dozens of 226, 228, and 220 frames that despite thousands of rounds down the tube, did not exhibit the marring I see from the milled slides of today.
I truly believe Sig could solve his problem with an extra finishing step to tone down razor sharp edges.
There are no pre-Exeter P229s.
But, I agree with you about this typical gouging. It's just so common that most folks would say it's "normal".
|The Whack-Job |
I work part-time for a Master Sig Dealer. I get to see a lot of Sig P series DA/SA guns.
And sadly, I voted that the quality is not what it should be. Especially given the prices. Theguns are inconsistent. We got in 3 P225A1s. Two had great triggers. The 3rd one, a beautiful two tone with G10 grips, had a trigger that felt like it had sand in the action. Terribly gritty.
We got in two P220 Combats. One had a trigger so heavy it was more than the MGRS trigger pull guage went up to. The other measured over 16 pounds. Both got returned.
These are but a few examples of some of the problems. But there are many P series guns that come in perfect. Excellent triggers, fine fit and finish. If all of them were as nice as the good ones, we would be selling a lot more than we are.
I think Sig is skimping on QC/QA. And it IS hurting their reputation. I still buy Sig pistols. But now I examine them as closely......more closely than when I examine a used gun. And thats not how it use to be. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI
Blue lives matter.
I said okay quality, but mostly because I don't have much experience with new SIGs. I've got a '94 P229, '95 P230SL, '98 P229, '00 P228, and a ~'09 P226. None of those are what I would consider new production. And most of them were bought used, often police-turn in. Couldn't tell you about "initial quality" as I didn't have them new, but they've all been great.
The two newer ones I have, a '14 SP2022 and a '17 P320 have been high quality. Well, the P320 benefitted from the disconnector design change, but that was design issue not quality.
So why did I answer "OK" rather than "high?" Well, I handled a P229 Legion at a local shop and my God was the trigger terrible. Noticably heavier than any DA SIG I own. Not gritty, per se, but definitely turned me away from wanting a Legion. I mean, the trigger was supposed to be one of the big selling points!
I wouldn't put the HK VP9 or Walther PPQ I've bought in the past few years as high quality either. Just okay.
Charter member of the vast, right-wing conspiracy
Haha, of course you’re right; I meant German framed, rather than pre-Exeter. I snipped my post and left that part in I suppose. The 229’s seemed to suffer this from the snappy .40 recoil along with the short stroke.
Seen my share if fractured mim parts. Locking blocks, hammers, and take down levers. And recently, I have seen several cracked frames on the UU and 47A series P226R 40 cal. Don’t recall hearing the earlier 226 40 caliber sigs having these issues.
I have no less than 10 (thanks to SF) pre 2000 Sigs. Most have been back to Sig for SSP. All run trouble free. My 1998 P220, which I estimate has 7+K through it, just broke a trigger return spring. It will go back to Sig for SSP.
My new P320 shot its recoil spring guide out the front of the slide at 50 rounds. And my early issue P320 is now at Sig for the drop safety mod.
And now we are hearing about P365 issues.
Given the price you pay for a Sig, especially a non polymer model, there is no excuse for QC problems. Or selling higher end guns without night sights as standard. I understand that Sig produces thousands of guns and perfection cant be expected one hundred percent. But it does seem that QC has taken a hit over the last 5 years.
End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
I have owned 1988 p226 and early 1990s p220 along with several 2012-2017 productions p226,p227 and p229s. To my eyes and in my hands they were all equals.
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