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when did it become a requirement that a SD gun go 1,000 rds without a malfunction to be 'safe to carry' ? Login/Join 
Armed and Gregarious
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quote:
Originally posted by kaschi:
When I used to read gun magazines in the 70s and 80s, the rule of thumb was always 200 or 250 rounds through a semi auto pistol.
Those mags also had ammo manufacturers buying ads too. Wink


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"He was never hindered by any dogma, except the Constitution." - Ty Ross speaking of his grandfather General Barry Goldwater

"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." - William Tecumseh Sherman
 
Posts: 12374 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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jljones and I had a debate about this awhile back so I don't know if its still online. But in any case the issue is what level of 'statistical' confidence you want in the results. O rounds is low, lots of rounds is high. Nobody can pick that point for you.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 7134 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Chris Anchor
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While I have thousands of rounds on my P228, it still likes to be cleaned about every 500 rounds or so. I will say in 96 when started carrying it I had about 50 rounds fired and stuck it in my belt. Chris
 
Posts: 1751 | Location: Cecil Co. Maryland | Registered: January 08, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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For me, I run 300 rounds of the hottest stuff for caliber I can find as a proof test before I carry. If the gun functions fine, then I do two full mags of carry ammo.
That works for me.
And I recently bought a Rock Island / Armscor cheapie 1911 and read in their manual that they recommended 500 rounds to "break in" the gun.
Uh.... Nope. The 1911 has been in production for 100+ years now. Figure out how to make one run with ball ammo without "break in".
Further note: The aforementioned 1911 never made it to the 500 round mark. Slide was locking to the rear with one round remaining in the mag. Diagnosis: Slide stop lever out of spec.
My letter accompanying the gun back for service was probably not enjoyed by Rock Island!


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Posts: 7093 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The guy behind the guy
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I usually like to have around 500 rounds through a gun before I trust it.

If I think a gun has a design flaw or potential weak point, then I’ll look to put several thousand through it before I trust the design.


E.S. Dunbar
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Posts: 6429 | Location: Toledo, Ohio | Registered: April 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's pronounced just
the way it's spelled
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In the reliability world, there is a thing called a Wiebull or bathtub curve, because of the shape. It illustrates that the failure distribution of anything is high in the beginning, an "infant mortality" if you will, then sharply drops down and plateaus out until it reaches end of life, when the failures ramp back up. No rational person expects the failure rate to drop to zero.
 
Posts: 762 | Location: Arid Zone A | Registered: February 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
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I don't believe there is any break-in round count "requirement", but a personal standard based on experience and what data there is available.

My standard for round counts break-ins has evolved over time. Years ago I bought a new P226 and decided to use a 1000 round break-in, with 500 rounds between each of its .40 S&W and .357 SIG barrels and several mags. I had two stoppages with the .40 S&W barrel, a FTEject around 400 rounds that I attributed to an extended range session with a dirty poorly lubed gun, and @ 100 rounds later a FTChamber due to an OOS round.

Since breaking in that gun I've re-thought my break-in procedure and have come to the conclusion that I could cut it down to about 500 rounds, but I don't pick a specific number of rounds so much as goals I want to achieve while breaking in the gun.

Break-in is most certainly about breaking in a gun, burnishing the various moving parts, and checking for function issues and reliability..but it is not just about break-in... it is opportunity to test the sights, test the accuracy, test various rounds (both training and defensive), testing grips, testing holsters...and becoming proficient with the gun, and not just minimally proficient but being able to demonstrate some level of skill above minimal proficiency.

In an effort to get the most out of my range time and expense I've even considered working chrono testing into my break-in routine but depending on what shooting range I use this often isn't feasible.

quote:
Originally posted by BuddyChryst:
I think it started with YouTube one-up-manship. Someone starts with 500 rounds in row. That gets a lot of views. So someone does 1000. And torture tests. And surprise, they manage to create a malfunction (while garnering views and getting paid). And top shooters that win prizes and sponsorships all state what their practice is. So knuckle draggers get it in their head that if they shoot 1000 rounds, they're as good as the top shooters just because they did it.

I just roll my eyes and move on to the next (meaningful) discussion.

ETA: I forgot to mention the new desire to impress people online (hint, rarely is anyone actually impressed) and seek validation.


You Tube posted their first video for public viewing in 2005, and I first started reading break-in round count discussions on this forum starting in 2008 with responses varying in the several threads over many years from 0 - 1000 rounds fired before confidence in carry was achieved. It's been interesting to watch responses in various threads change over the years. Extended round count and torture test gun video didn't appear on You Tube until years later.

While I don't disagree that You Tube video gun extended round counts and torture tests may have played into more recent thoughts on round count break-ins, I believe that the early discussions were prompted by the widespread reports of quality issues and stoppages (gun, magazines, ammo related, some legitimate some not), as well as the reports of parts breakage, burrs and the switch to MIM parts became more common.
 
Posts: 3997 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
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Ordered new duty guns on Friday.
Whenever they come in this is how we plan on doing it.

Each gun gets loaded to max 15+15+15+1 (3 mags and one in the chamber) with duty ammo and each person will shoot the 25 round qual course then finish off what’s left in the mags.
Clean gun. Reload and go back on duty.

I do the same with my carry guns. Load mags I plan on using and run them through the gun. Clean. Reload. Carry.



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 5762 | Location: South of Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
addicted to trailing-throttle oversteer
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In those few times I switched to a new carry or home defense weapon, I would shoot mostly for myself, making sure that I was adept enough with the firearm, and/or the caliber of that particular firearm. If it took thousands of rounds, so be it. I ran a ton of rounds through my first Glock, my Gen2 G19, because not only was it my first Glock, it was also my first handgun, period. At least 2500 rounds. When I switched to 40S&W, my primary G23 got shot quite a lot as well, north of 1400 rounds at least. Again it was the same mindthink with my G43; I had to build confidence in my own skills with it as much as I might be testing the quality of the gun itself.
 
Posts: 8584 | Location: Drippin' wet | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That's really the key, outside of "breaking in."

There are shooters here who would be proficient and up to speed no matter what they picked up, whom I'd place in a different class of shooter. I'm not one of them by any stretch. Moving to a new firearm, it would take a lot more rounds before I came close to feeling comfortable carrying and potentially discharging that firearm in public.

Aside from any love for my own skin, I have a responsibility to anyone else who might get hurt, so for the sake of proficiency, as well as assurance of reliability and familiarity, the pistol will get a lot of rounds sent down range before I'm comfortable carrying it.

I'm not in the class of shooter than can or should expect to pick up a new firearm throw it in my waistband and expect to hit 100% of what I shoot at, with every shot, under stress. If I can't, I shouldn't be carrying the pistol. It's not just about mechanical reliability.
 
Posts: 2554 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 10-7 leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
Break-in is most certainly about breaking in a gun, burnishing the various moving parts, and checking for function issues and reliability..but it is not just about break-in... it is opportunity to test the sights, test the accuracy, test various rounds (both training and defensive), testing grips, testing holsters...and becoming proficient with the gun, and not just minimally proficient but being able to demonstrate some level of skill above minimal proficiency.


This is basically my approach. I will usually put a few mags through a new pistol to check the sight alignment, feeding from the mags, become comfortable drawing from the holster.

The final test is to take the part of the qualification course that is the most challenging to me and run through it about 25 times (50 rounds). If I keep all rounds in the five point rings, I consider it good. If I don't, I keep practicing.


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Posts: 1662 | Location: Central Va. | Registered: September 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The P365 was recently held to a higher standard than 200 to 500 rounds. Then again, there were reported issues, so perhaps that mitigates the "standard".

Generally, the failures I've had were in the first 500 rounds I would says But just about any given handgun can fail unpredictably at any point no matter how reliable the maker and model may be on the whole.
 
Posts: 17069 | Location: Northern Vermont | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I guess I'm cheap... two mags (20-30 rounds) and I'm comfortable carrying... now as for breaking in a semi-auto... yes, you do need to put a few hundred rounds through it to smooth it out in function and also to get used to how it operates... smooth yourself out. (Then again, I'm violating that personal rule... I ordered a trigger from Gray Guns for my new P320 after only about 75 rounds...)
 
Posts: 514 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have stuck with the 200 rounds of practice ammo followed by two full mags of defensive ammo with each mag I plan to use. My goal is to check for any obvious defect or out of spec part that would show itself early on or a pistol/ammo incompatibility issue as well as gain some basic proficiency. I really am not interested in torture testing it.

When people say they "don't trust it with their life" because it might fail at XXX rounds, I ask them to apply the odds realistically. The 1:? chance of mechanical failure needs to manifest itself during a highly unlikely event(being attacked and needing to shoot) rather than at a future range session. It also needs to happen at a point in the gunfight where it would make a difference. If the striker on your P365 breaks after you've fired two rounds into the attacker and he's dead on the ground, it doesn't change the outcome.
 
Posts: 7408 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Mine varies but it's usually a couple hundred FMJ rounds followed by some hollow points.
Just purchased a Glock 19X Saturday and put 400 rounds through it the same day. All Blazer Brass.
Yesterday I went out to the back acreage and put 120 rounds of various hollow points through it. No problems with any type of ammunition.
Today, it's going on my waist. That's my take on it.


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Posts: 2050 | Location: The armpit of Ohio | Registered: August 18, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Doin' what I can
with what I got
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The only real carry test that I do is working ~150rnds of Gold Dots through the pistol using my carry magazines after a standard practice session of 150-200 rounds.

By that point I've probably run the pistol through several practice iterations of the same round count to get used to it and make sure everything works.


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Posts: 5177 | Registered: May 11, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The mistake that many people make, especially with a brand new firearm, is to take the gun out of the box and start shooting it. Then if they experience an issue, they blame the gun. When I buy a new (to me) gun, I resist the temptation to shoot it right away. I take it home and disassemble it, inspect it and lube it. That 'bonding' makes me familiar with it and some degree of confidence it'll perform as expected.

300rds of fmj and jhp w/o issue is my standard. Initially, I shoot 100rds of less expensive fmj like WINCHESTER White Box and PMC. I figure if a new to me gun is going to fail, it'll probably do it with the 'cheaper stuff'. Then I finish the reliability test with quality carry jhp.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: az4783054,


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Posts: 8196 | Location: Somewhere north of a hot humid hell in the summer. | Registered: January 09, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It varies for me. I like to get a gun dirty and clean it at least once or twice, before carrying it around all day. I mean, just carrying is going to introduce some dirt/trash in the weapon. Generally this means 200-500 rounds and at least 2 range sessions with a variety of ammo including what I use as SD ammo.


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Posts: 3925 | Location: DFW | Registered: May 21, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The number of rounds fired, is dependent on the number of magazines I have (7) on average for each semiautomatic pistol. The magazine is the Achilles Heal of the semiautomatic pistol in my opinion. Thus I most likely fire more rounds during the break in procedure than most individuals would or likely to. The cost also becomes a factor employing the self-defense ammunition as opposed to as an example WWB-FMJ or equivalent.
 
Posts: 858 | Registered: October 09, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think it depends on the individual. My personal routine for a new pistol is to clean and lube it, then fire 200 rounds of my carry ammo using the magazines it will be carried with. If no issues present in those 200 rounds then I’m satisfied. Others may not be comfortable with that and require more.
 
Posts: 57 | Registered: May 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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